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To think Rachel Dolezal is an utter charlatan

287 replies

MercyMyJewels · 28/03/2017 10:23

twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/846410886671732736

Apparently there is a thing called transracial now.

What next, transbeastial?

OP posts:
Sample1936 · 29/03/2017 01:16

Michael jackson

OlennasWimple · 29/03/2017 01:18

Gin - am v impressed with your YouTube suggestions!

That clip reminded me why I don't want Loose Women: they ask her has it been hard having to change her personality because as woman on a date she "has to let the man pay" Angry Angry

GinSwigmore · 29/03/2017 01:27

m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=8HrL9Ys6uXQ
India has also been on LW and been a panelist. Again given an easy ride re gender critical issues and re when to disclose trans status on a date but^ this is Loose Women not Dispatches.

OlennasWimple · 29/03/2017 01:30

No, sorry, I can't get past the first 14 seconds, where India explains "the science bit" of being transgender, which is apparently to do with all foetuses being female initially but in the "washing process" when some become male something goes wrong and that's how transgender people come about...

Really, Janet Street-Porter, sitting there smiling and nodding? I expected better of you...

GinSwigmore · 29/03/2017 01:35

@sample
Expand.

Michael Jackson is an interesting one. Mainly because there is a line of thought that was he was so abused by Joe, he really did not want to see his dad in the mirror and that he was so enamoured with Diana Ross he wanted to look like her hence the surgeries but with regard to "skin bleaching" his well known battle with vitiligo is probably the more likely cause, no?

OlennasWimple · 29/03/2017 01:39

I also thought Michael Jackson never claimed to be white, or trying to be white?

GinSwigmore · 29/03/2017 02:01

Back to the topic in question though...I like to see the best in people, I choose to do that. Rachel Dolezal is a decent sister to the brother she ended up adopting and was doing her best in trying to protect her sister. One of her brothers does confirm parental abuse.
So...
religious indoctrination
physical parental abuse
emotional spousal abuse
and wanting to put as much distance between herself and her birth family, firmly aligning herself with her adoptive siblings who, by all accounts, she was looking after from a young age.
That's a lot of baggage.
Does that excuse her performing blackface/pretending to be a POC/biracial? No. Is she a damaged individual? Yes.
So I can feel sympathy for her and her kids even whilst not remotely condoning her actions. She was a pain in the butt to the police dept which is how she got found out. Parents happy to sell her out as quick as because it meant all and any credibility she had was dead in the water forever (the charges her black adopted sister was making against the white brother were dropped). Given she has a toddler, and two adoptive siblings who still need her support, clearly it's them I feel most sorry for.
Opinion piece here:
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/27/rachel-dolezal-race-white

venusinscorpio · 29/03/2017 02:01

Ageing, thanks for the article you posted. It's great. And the comments are mostly good too, apart from this one:

We're obviously undercounting murders of trans people generally, because there's absolutely no fucking way white trans women are murdered less than white ciswomen when white cismen are murdered more often.

WTF? Bullshit. Typical lies. White TW are hardly ever murdered at all. Much less than white women. It's all PoC. And they tend to be involved in prostitution. The vast majority worldwide are in Brazil. Brazil is a hugely violent society for everyone. Especially for gender non conforming men, racially black people and prostitutes.

Other commenters allege that certain people on the roll call weren't actually trans, they've just been used to make political capital. Disgraceful if that's the case.

GinSwigmore · 29/03/2017 02:07

No, hence the uproar when Joseph Fiennes was chosen to play him recently. Michael Jackson was a proud black man and often said this in his speeches.

GrommitsEarsHurt · 29/03/2017 03:30

I can understand the concept of trans race, as so much of race is about cultural constructs as well as biology.

I also have no problem with transsexual people. The decision to go through surgery etc is not exactly for lolz.

I have a huge problem with this definition though: Stonewall now defines transgender as "any person whose gender identity and/or gender expression does not conform to conventional ideas of male or female gender, or the sex they were assigned at birth. This includes all binary and non-binary gender identities and those who have an absence of gender identity."

This definition seems to have been decided upon by trans individuals. As such, though the above might be their experience, it does not differentiate from non-trans men and women, who also don't conform to conventional gender stereotypes.

My mum has incredibly short hair, wears "masculine" clothes, has no interest in make up, is gay, and is the least stereotypically "feminine" woman you could ever meet. However, she does not identify as trans, even though she would meet the above definition.

The reason she doesn't is because of biology. She has breasts, a vagina, had periods, birthed a child and experienced the -bastard- menopause.

More importantly, because of that biology, she has been treated by society as a woman and, as such, has experienced sexism from a young age, in all its restrictive, misogynistic glory. She has experienced this in school, the workplace, within family and friends, through books, tv, the media and wider society.

She is also the same age as Caitlyn Jenner. I would love to know how Caitlyn Jenner, and other people who label themselves as transgender, "know" what it is to feel like a woman? Caitlyn doesn't share my mum's biology, and cannot claim to have experienced the world as a female throughout her life? As, prior to transition, she has never been a woman, how does she know she feels like one? She can't, therefore it must come down to either body dysmorphia or gender roles.

I have great sympathy with those people who suffer genuine gender dysmorphia, though I do find it concerning that all other forms of dysmorphia we treat as a mental illness. However, in the absence of treating the dysmorphia adequately through non-invasive means, then to undertake measures such as HRT and surgery would, one would hope reduce the suffering experienced.

I do not understand, however, individuals who claim to be trans due to not meeting the gender stereotypes of their biological sex. Surely the answer to this, rather than identifying as member of the opposite sex, is to widen the constraints of gender stereotypes? And that liking dresses and makeup doesn't mean you're a woman, any more than being a "tomboy" makes a girl a boy. It's the concept of gender which needs to widen.

On a separate note, if transpeople experience more attacks, negativity and violence, can I ask more than who? I am just wondering, if this is particularly prevalent amongst transwomen, whether society is now viewing the person as female, so they are simply experiencing the violence which many non-trans women experience every day?

GrommitsEarsHurt · 29/03/2017 03:30

Whoops, apologies for epic post Blush

user1487175389 · 29/03/2017 07:17

It's weird how most of RD's justification foe being the way she is comes from the claim that her family were 'dirt poor' but look at her photos! Just a normal middle class white girl in the 1990s with shiny hair and nice clothes. - Not a 'dog hair sweater' in sight (whatever the fuck that is). Her 1930s dustbins fantasy is just that.

WiltingTulip · 29/03/2017 08:45

GrommitsEarsHurt well said

PlayOnWurtz · 29/03/2017 09:21

I think it's an interesting case. She's using the same logic as the trans activists. So either both are right of both are wrong...

GrommitsEarsHurt · 29/03/2017 10:15

Thanks Wilting.

KittyPerry77 · 29/03/2017 11:01

Surely the difference between transracial and transgender is that a set of Nigerian parents whose ancestors have always procreated with fellow indigenous Nigerians has zero possibility of producing a Japanese child. Those parents can however produce a child of either sex.

I believe the assertion from transwomen now is that they have always been female, not just that they feel like women. So it is based on the biology of something going wrong in the womb not just feelingz.

isupposeitsverynice · 29/03/2017 11:14

They aren't female though because they are not of the sex that bears and births children, I mean that really is all female means it's got fuck all to do with feelings or nail polish

WankingMonkey · 29/03/2017 11:59

As others have said, makes as much sense as transgender.

I find it an odd position to hold...when people think Donezal is a disgrace yet accept transgender ideology blindly. Its the same thing.

MrsJayy · 29/03/2017 12:06

Yes she has a book out she was on breakfast tv today with her story apparentley she has adopted transracial after speaking to caitlyn jenner Confused I dont know how anybody can identify as AfricanAmerican when they are clearly not African American

MrsJayy · 29/03/2017 12:09

She started saying cis this and that i just glazed over.

JungleInTheRumble · 29/03/2017 12:10

I don't know RD's motivations for what she did.

It does seem strange but I think a pp mentioned that in the black community was the first place she felt at home and accepted. It makes sense that she'd want to emulate those who she felt she identified with.

With regard to the "transracial" having roots in childhood, pretending to be an African child, feeling like she didn't fit in - I think that's pretty normal childhood behaviour. I used to pretend to be a tiger or a wolf and I often felt like I didn't belong.

Funnily enough noone saw those childhood games and anxieties as any more than that and now I'm a pretty normal 20 something year old who doesn't harbour any desire to be a tiger...

I think culture is something that can be shared and embraced but race is not. She clearly identified strongly with black culture and feels an affinity to it but fact is, she's not black and never will be.

I do feel sorry for her though. The interview where she realises she's been rumbled is painful to watch.

MrsJayy · 29/03/2017 12:25

Yes i think her identifying with culture and causes is fine blatantly lying and deceiving people isn't fine imo

quencher · 29/03/2017 12:56

I think people are not agreeing with RD because practically she is the only known case. There is probably a lot of them out there but are not known of. If there is thousands and they all came forward, I think that would be a different story. I doubt the law would change to accommodate them though. A black woman identifying as white will not get very far.

I also, think in the Michale Jackson case, his skin colour is not similar to most people who bleach. It almost white, not the people white but white the colour. It's very similar to vitiligo skin tone. His autopsy case did say he had it too with that dead photo of him lying on the table shown to court.

The other case I remember reading about years ago was the brother to the actress Mindy from the Mindy project. He identified as black on his application form. He had no intention of staying black for the rest of his life. He used his to get into medical school then wrote a book about it. I also, think people didn't make much of a fuss because he was a man of Indian or Pakistani descent plus being a man probably.

RD case could be confusing for people because most people who bleach are of darker skin. What might be puzzling people without saying it, is why would a white woman want to be black when the world could be her oyster?

Rihanna said it best for me. I don't agree about the hero part but the rest of it.

“I think she was a bit of a hero, because she kind of flipped on society a little bit,” Rihanna told Robinson during one long-ranging, late-night conversation. “Is it such a horrible thing that she pretended to be black? Black is a great thing, and I think she legit changed people’s perspective a bit and woke people up.”

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