To think Rachel Dolezal is an utter charlatan

[MercyMyJewels]

twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/846410886671732736

Apparently there is a thing called transracial now.

What next, transbeastial?

There could well be something biological going on inside that has affected 'something' in a trans person's body and brain There could well be something that has affected something? See that just doesn't seem like enough to go on for me. There could well be something biological that has affected something in RD, couldn't there?

Because it's skin colour. Like eye colour. - Race is more than just skin colour.

Ego, so how do so many MTT can and do father children? Is this a chromosome/hormone thing that doesn't alter the ability to reproduce?

Because it is the same load of nonsense

Is being transsexual a whole load of nonsense?

I read the articles NotCaryl linked to up thread and I will never get those minutes back.

Is this a chromosome/hormone thing that doesn't alter the ability to reproduce

The body is a complex system. Who knows what happens to the body and how hormones affect it at cellular and system? It may be that meiosis is unaffected but other parts of the body are.

*I wonder if a black person said hey, I identify as white, whether they would hop into the experience of being white with all the privilege that comes with it.

Well - there's a history of it.*

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/10/07/354310370/a-chosen-exile-black-people-passing-in-white-america" target="_blank">http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/10/07/354310370/a-chosen-exile-black-people-passing-in-white-americaa*
This is the sort of stupidly I hate to come across. They probably 10% or less as black but you would be forced to identify as black no matter what. That's is the same reason why RD got away it. It's the racism that groups any dark pigment in everyone as one group.

No one has really come up with a good argument as to why the issues are different.

The only reason why those issues are treated different is because all countries on this world are members of the patriarchy club, but not all countries on this world are members of the racism against black people club.

Men invented misogyny to justify their oppression of women thousands and thousands of years ago.

Racism was inverted somewhen around when white people wanted to justify taking away land from brown people, and enslaving black people to farm that land.

As it is much younger, racism has not gained such a strong foothold, and the fight to get rid of it has been successful enough that almost all people now regard blackface as inacceptable.

The fact that womanface is still accepted speaks volumes.

Starcossed I don't know about anyone else but I'm certainly not trying to offend... It's different with mixed race, because it is exactly that. Some people (I have known/know) choose to mark down, if you will, according to their appreance, others to how they're brought up. I knew one girl in school who's mother was white and the father was black. She was very light skinned with dark curly hair, actually a lot like RD pretends to be, and she usually called herself black or mixed race. She used white when she thought it would be funny to have her Jamaican accent surpise people.

But she was mixed, RD isn't at all (that anyone has said). Being mixed and choosing which part to represent yourself as (if you wish to choose one) is different to being one completely and choosing something else. Isn't it?

Is being transsexual a whole load of nonsense?

I believe so ego. I believe that people should be as masculine or feminine as they want to be, wear what they like, do what they want to their bodies and not suffer any discrimination.

But I don't think you can actually become a different sex to the one you were born. Therefore you should not be able to access sports competitions, scholarships, positions of authority or jobs that are allocated to a different sex from the one that you were born.

Same with race. You shouldn't be able to say you are black and access black jobs or scholarships if you are white, no matter how black you look or feel culturally.

You can put anything you want in the 'race' box. It absolutely is a feeling.

But racism and racial discrimination are real experiences for many people. If somebody is going to bin my job application because of my Asian-sounding name, it's not going to make any difference to that person how I identify.

Where is the line though? When do you stop being 'mixed' race? I have a friend who is ginger and whose parents are 'white' two more generations back though (so her great grandfather) is aboriginal heritage and she identifies as aboriginal.

My maternal grandmother was Chinese but I look completely white and identify as white.

People are complicated.

Gender is a made up thing and I would say race is a made up thing. So I really can't see the difference.

From what I understand about race, is there a difference between how people treat you based on your racial appearance? I don't know the right words to describe it but effectively, do people treat you better if you are 'not as dark' as others? There's a whole spectrum of appearances and I think that some people within that spectrum are treated better than other people.

we call all tick what boxes we want to identify with

but that doesn't make it factual or change peoples experiences in life

as for race we are all asked on medical forms when it is relevant because it is not just a coincidence that people with brown eyes and darker skin are more likely to suffer from certain medical issues

Caryl - they are not women. Wear what you like and call yourself Stephanie not Stephen but that does NOT make you a woman.

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your reports.

We just wanted to remind everyone that whilst we allow robust discussion it should always remain well within our Talk guidelines.

Which snowflake reported NotCaryl's post? The idea that we can have robust discussion but can't cope with someone throwing out the word Nazi instead of an actual argument is ludicrous.

I've yet to watch it, but quite interested in RD
Allow my attempt at mumsnet bingo, I think it's likely to be related to a personality disorder.
Parents adopted black children younger than RD, seems to me this affected her psyche during formative years
Actually it's really not about race, all this race stuff is the manifestation of her feeling rejected in favour of black children
In the US being black seems to mean having any amount of African - Caribbean heritage at all, e.g. Jade Goody would be classed as "black" in American whereas she was thought of as mixed or white in the uk

The Chosen Exile article linked to above is interesting. Because slave owners repeatedly raped their female slaves through the generations, you ended up with a lot of people who were genetically mostly "white" but were considered, because of their heritage, to be "black". So you have a curious situation where someone who is, for example 7/8 white, is regarded as "black" by both white people and black people - and the decision to label yourself as white rather than black is then regarded as "passing". It demonstrates that race really is much more a social and cultural construction than something rooted in biological reality.

as for race we are all asked on medical forms when it is relevant because it is not just a coincidence that people with brown eyes and darker skin are more likely to suffer from certain medical issues

It's far from that simple and we need to be careful when considering the concept of race.

Taking NotCaryl's cue on acceptable sources:
www.scientificamerican.com/article/race-is-a-social-construct-scientists-argue/

To be fair, if a man can say hes a women because he feels like it, and we all have to accept it and move aside for them, then someone can absolutely say the same about race.

I wonder what will happen when white people who identify as black start to invade demand access to spaces and services provided for black people. I guess we'll soon see!!

Caryl - they are not women. Wear what you like and call yourself Stephanie not Stephen but that does NOT make you a woman.

This. And if there weren't demands to actually treat them like women, no one would ever have to tread on their toes by pointing out that they are not women.

If you don't want to be told the truth about your body, don't put people in a situation where they have to point it out.

If you are so obese you need as much space as three normal-weight people, don't squeeze yourself into an elevator full of people that has only space for one more normal-weight person, or you will be told that you are fat.

If you are male, don't squeeze yourself in women's spaces, or you will be told that you are male.

My kids are mixed race and sometimes identify as Afro Caribbean, sometimes black and sometimes white. I've never quite figured out why it changes. One you would assume was white, one isn't generally recognised as white by other people. In the US alot of people who think they are 100% white probably have other genes in there.

Big fuss about nothing.

as for race we are all asked on medical forms when it is relevant because it is not just a coincidence that people with brown eyes and darker skin are more likely to suffer from certain medical issues
Maybe you should watch this ted-talks. The problem with race based medicine.
The problem with race-based medicine
https://www.ted.com/talks/dorothyrobertsstheproblemmwithraceebasedmedicine

I wonder what will happen when white people who identify as black start to invade demand access to spaces and services provided for black people. I guess we'll soon see!!

Rachel Dolezal did it - while living 24/7 as black person, doing activism for actual black people, etc. People got very, very, very angry and stripped all the positions she had because she had fooled people into thinking that she was black away from her. She's now financially struggling from what I have heard last.

"Caitlyn" Jenner reaped all the benefits of male privilege for decades, fathered children, and then decided to identify as woman, and promptly got a "Woman of the Year" award, despite applying for a golf club membership as Bruce Jenner while already "living as woman".

Double standards are being applies as we speak, and I do not think admitting that they are actually white will make it easier for white people to access spaces and services for black people.