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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Mansplaining

314 replies

Featherstickers · 26/03/2017 08:54

Is it a thing? Or another media cliché?

I believe Dh is a huuuuuge mansplainer and I find it frustrating infuriating at times.

AIBU to ask if it's a real thing and how to cope with it to protect my sanity.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
slug · 27/03/2017 12:52

.

Mansplaining
picklemepopcorn · 27/03/2017 14:12

I agree Rufus, I have found Mars pretty rude on this thread. Despite all the copy pasting it isn't always clear what they are referring to. One of my posts is patronising, apparently, but I couldn't work out which.

Milestogobeforewesleep · 27/03/2017 14:42

egosumquisum1

Haha, no, not Mary Beard, although I like her style! Grin

I'm not hugely high up in my field, and I'm happy to listen to people who know about it, but in my experience the people who know most about a subject are the least likely to lecture others on it and most likely to listen - because they know there are always gaps in their knowledge and anyway they have nothing to prove.

Inevitably it's the (ime experience always) men who know almost nothing about my subject who decide to lecture me on it. Even when I give them an out and suggest we talk about something else, because I spend all day thinking about it. It's as though they're compelled to demonstrate the depths of their ignorance.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 27/03/2017 14:52

Mansplaining is definitely a thing. And I agree, it is one ever done by men who don't actually now much about the subject they are attempting to explain. To give an example, my supervisor at university is a Oxbridge educated man who obviously knows far more about my subject than I do, he has never mansplained to me. Some random bloke in a pub who has never studied my subject at all but saw a documentary not only 'explained' it to me, but also insisted I was wrong about the bloody definition of it.

Lweji · 27/03/2017 14:52

Many studies. We're more likely to be better at multi-tasking. These are studies of large groups, not a single child. That is biological.

How did those studies differentiate between what was due to sex and what was due to gender?

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 27/03/2017 16:14

'How did those studies differentiate between what was due to sex and what was due to gender?'

And how do they account for the people who don't conform to the findings? For example, there are large numbers of women who can't multitask, and large numbers of men who can, so it seems incongruous to suggest that such skills are sex based when so many people don't conform.

Lessthanaballpark · 27/03/2017 16:37

I can't multitask for toffee. I used to feel bad because I'm crap at running a home and I felt I should be good at it being female and all. But one day I read an article saying that it was a myth and that multi tasking was bad for productivity. Felt so much better after that.

Trills · 27/03/2017 21:53

Being allowed to single-task is a a luxury that women are seldom afforded.

SmileEachDay · 27/03/2017 21:56

Trills I can't imagine the consequences if I started only doing one thing at a time...

Trills · 27/03/2017 22:00

lifeissweet you are absolutely not alone in having prickly-eyed nearly-tears when you are not sad, you are angry or frustrated. This is a normal thing. Not everyone gets it but it is definitely within the spread of things that are normal.

TonySopranosVest · 28/03/2017 06:54

I had a man tell me my name was Irish once. It's not it's a Welsh name and so I told him so...only to have him say "ah, no, it's Irish" Hmm

My own name!

Ampersand22 · 28/03/2017 07:06

My DH tried to tell me how to fry chips the other day. I have cooked chips before. Many times. I am from a council estate. I know chips.

I am 43.

MarsInScorpio · 28/03/2017 07:43

@Lweji

How did those studies differentiate between what was due to sex and what was due to gender?

That's the difficult aspect which is why studying babies was extremely important.

@SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed

And how do they account for the people who don't conform to the findings?

Because you study a large group of people and look for trends. A study of one person of either sex will tell you nothing. I know full well that I don't conform to many of the 'standard' traits of women. I'm confident in many situations and have had to work throughout my life not being overbearing. I can be very single minded and a poor multitasker. I'm not the most empathetic of people and have an extremely logical brain. I worked in STEM and now, the vast majority of my peers are male.

birdsdestiny · 28/03/2017 07:47

I know chips Grin

Ampersand22 · 28/03/2017 08:12

birds apparently you have to give them a shake once in a while, -no shit, Sherlock- so take heed friend, lest your other half wrestle the spatula off of you mid-fry and cause a potential lard fire.

I don't use lard. But I was cooking chips in the 70's in my nappy, practically, and it is merely to illustrate the fact that I was in the chips business when his fucking mammy was still doing everything for him and he's four years older so fuck the fuck off innit.

Lessthanaballpark · 28/03/2017 08:20

"I'm not the most empathetic of people and have an extremely logical brain."

I'm not saying you're saying this but the way you've put them together as your proof of femininity non-conforming is so typical of how people think feminine = empathy and masculine = logic.

It's so stupid and illogical in itself because not only are the two not mutually exclusive but empathy is probably one of the most logical traits we possess as social animals who need to get on with each other.

It's typical as the way we like to lump male and female into different boxes and it's idiotic.

Lessthanaballpark · 28/03/2017 08:27

It seems so pathetic this desperate Mars and Venusy divvying up of things: "Oh we have spatial awareness, so you can have empathy", "we have logic and reason so you have nurturing and multi-tasking".

It's such a sop thrown to women and no surprise that these ideas were conveniently given new life with the evolutionary theory of the late C19th when women started agitating for their rights. What a coincidence! Oh and guess which of those traits end up getting paid more?

Lweji · 28/03/2017 08:35

It's typical as the way we like to lump male and female into different boxes and it's idiotic.

And guess where that leads?

Sexism and people who think they should be a different gender because they don't conform.

Lweji · 28/03/2017 08:37

That's the difficult aspect which is why studying babies was extremely important.

What babies studies have supported your claims?

RunRabbitRunRabbit · 28/03/2017 09:04

DH is a dreadful dadsplainer. Our children's questions always result in a lecture. They are old enough to take the piss now, which is helping to retrain him. Middle child just wanders off, or if trapped in a car might say "I can't talk about that, I stopped listening ages ago." Burn!!! DH's face is hilarious.

He is not a mansplainer though. He takes the piss fiercely out of mansplainers. They take it seriously from a man. Sigh. Still, it is funny to see them reset their brains because DH who is a very manly man alpha type is mocking their mansplaining. You can see all the emotions flick across their faces.

He singlehandedly used the power of taking the piss to stop his mates calling women "girls". Bastard male privilege. They'd have just ignored me in a yes dear kind of way. I'm no shrinking violet nor an easy to dismiss dungaree wearer either. Sigh. Ah well, I'll take progress from wherever it comes.

VenusRising · 28/03/2017 10:43

Someone called? Grin

I work in stem, I've got the best of both /all worlds in my brain.
I can turn a car on a dime, and drive off road for pleasure in a 4x4.
I am excellent at special analysis.

I also can listen extremely well, and have trained as a counsellor to work in a women's charity (think women's aid or similar)

However, I agree there are differences to the sexes, in the main.
The male and female brains are different by and large.
We have equal rights and responsibilities under the law, and as citizens, but we are different.

To create a universe where a subject is excluded because of a pervasive trait such as gender, and where one is included, is not helpful.

Let me put that another way, generalising about gender, and attributed associated with that isn't helpful, as no doubt many of you know!

I like to have things explained to me sometimes and I listen intently, as it shows me the limit of that person's understanding. But as soon as I'm not learning anything, I turn away.

Many of you have discussed casual conversations in the pub as quite a sticking point, and I have also experienced this in pubs.
I have learned never to engage with the 'lads in the pub' as they are in the main boring, rude and dismissive of my knowledge and experience. I don't find their conversation on any subject interesting anyway, and don't feel the need to enlighten them on how stupid they are!

I don't 'throw my pearls to the swine', and prefer to keep my powder dry for important events amongst peers.

I try not to bore anyone when I'm talking with them, and keep an eye on them when speaking. There are as many ways as speaking as there are people, and it behoves us as experts to engage and not to patronise and assume incompetence as a default.

I understand I spent many years studying and doing postgrad degrees and I always assume others have the same experience until they prove otherwise by their own admission and /or talking shite

I think the thing to do is to interrupt men/women who over talk an expert, and simply say, "yes, thank you Jack, Jane made that point just now". Repeat ad infinitum until Jack gets the idea he need not interrupt, and to wind his neck in. Also to thank the expert for her contribution every time when the meeting is winding up.

We need to support each other to get the job done (men and women) and squish the overtalking person (whether a man or a woman)

We need to lean in for each other as well as ourselves (disclaimer, I thought that book LeanIn by Cheryl Sandburg was mostly awful and screamed white, educated, able bodied, supported, wealthy, privileged, indeed, after the death of her husband, she has said as much herself, never realising how difficult life could be for single mothers (duh))

I don't think mansplaining is a helpful term moving forward toward a more equatable and fair society- same as any stereotype it belittles and alienates.
I think overtalking is a better description of that unhelpful attribute where a non expert teaches the expert how to suck an egg.

I think the men who overtalking maybe have no radar for how boring they are, and have no idea about their privilege in any situation. Certainly having worked with men almost exclusively in my stem job, I think male interaction is very hierarchical and specialist.

I don't think men in general are trying to be personally insulting, but I do think they need to learn that from their privileged position they come across as boors quite a lot if they adopt a patronising over talking manner. I've seen men posturing and overtalking men in their quest to climb the greasy pole that is the male totem of power, or establish themselves as the expert in a side role (think of the character Brains in Thunderbirds)

My work with women is so much more relaxing by comparison where we get the job done in a more collaborative atmosphere.

MarsInScorpio · 28/03/2017 10:44

@Lessthanaballpark

feminine = empathy and masculine = logic

I think they typically are, not perhaps '=', but 'likely to be more evident in...'.

Again, there's no proof it's down to nature or nurture, but of the thousands and thousands of children I've known (and many adults), it is a trend I've observed.

divvying up of things

It's still down to trends. Not a specific, this se has A so the other can have B.

@LweJi

What babies studies have supported your claims?

There was a study that is being peer reviewed (I know one of the peers so got a read) showing large differences in electrical activity in the brain. I believe the children were under 2 months old so much less likely to be due to socialisation although I know there are some suggestions that different sex babies are treated differently from day 1. The clusters of activity took place in parts of the brain (not a biologist, can't remember the names) which control the stereotypical 'things' some think men and women have or do such as empathy for females and logic for males. Again, any individual in a test like this may be the opposite to expected or have combinations of all. It looks for trends.

Is it the 'limbuc system' which controls emotions and 'temporal system' for audio-stimulus and speech? This last sentence may be entirely wrong.

Sexism and people who think they should be a different gender because they don't conform.

Those two are different things. I'm much more tolerant of transexualism than most MN'ers (not particularly you) but do agree that a man thinking "I like baking cakes and not having dirty fingernails. I'm a woman" or the woman-man equivalent is entirely missing the point of all of this being a huge spectrum, simply with a sex or gender cluster around certain traits.

VenusRising · 28/03/2017 10:51

Omg
Apologies for the essay and the typos.
Hope it made sense (if you read it!)

VenusRising · 28/03/2017 11:12

I agree mars, there's a spectrum of gender based traits.

It's natural instinct to classify and have keys and taxonomic exclusions, but these systems have limits, and with the presence of hormone disrupters and perhaps artificial pharma hormones (bcp) in society (leaked into water courses) now I wonder are we moving forward to a more fluid appreciation of gender, at a point in time, and which can change over the life time of an individual as well.

I wonder if the categories of male and female per se are out of date in more modern environmental conditions and also awareness, and need a review.

Lweji · 28/03/2017 15:31

I am excellent at special analysis.

What is a special analysis?

I'm a biologist with good spacial skills and never heard of this. :)

The 'limbuc system' is also funny. Grin

I'm also a mumbore. I think I've single-handedly put my child off biology and science.

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