Mansplaining

[Featherstickers]

Is it a thing? Or another media cliché?

I believe Dh is a huuuuuge mansplainer and I find it frustrating infuriating at times.

AIBU to ask if it's a real thing and how to cope with it to protect my sanity.

If you want to see it in action, watch The Wright Stuff in the morning.

*"feminine = empathy and masculine = logic

I think they typically are, not perhaps '=', but 'likely to be more evident in...'."*

Oh for goodness sake, how on earth do you test logical ability in babies?!

And again, why do you make the assumption that having empathy leads to a lack of logic?

It's just illogical to assume that. Your conclusions are drawn by going along the same well-worn grooves of Mars/Venus thinking.

Maybe girls have empathy and logic. Have you ever thought of that? And how have you managed to observe these so called heightened powers of logic in boy babies (or socialised children) without being extremely subjective about what constitutes logic and what doesn't?

And as for "suggestions" that babies of two months are already experiencing some socialisation, you're not bloody kidding!

The girls in our family are born into a sea of pink flowers and cries of "princess", "diva" and "who's the prettiest girl in the world?" whilst the boys are born into a world of superheroes, cars, and "hey little/big man".

Kids respond to positive cues. They try to please adults around them and if they get the sense that acting a certain way gets them praise they'll do it.

There was a study that is being peer reviewed

Nice way of not giving a link, btw. :)

Surely it's not the only one.

the thing is, mansplaining can be an early and useful indicator of a twat.

About 18 months ago I met a new senior team member- M - at a company we work with. In the middle of quite a big, formal meeting, about 10 minutes after the very first time we had been introduced, he leant over to me and started talking in an undertone - while someone else, a woman, was addressing the meeting. He was mansplaining my job to me. So, the very first words addressed to me by this man were 1. mansplaining, 2. while disrespecting the woman who was talking, 3. while distracting me from what she was saying.

Leaving the meeting, my male boss asked me what I thought of M. I was vague but hinted that I hadn't fallen in love with the guy. I knew I would alienate my boss by raising my "bitter and twisted" red flags. He didn't get it at all and actually I alienated him by having any reservations at all - they were at the beginning of a big bromance.

12 months later, M isn't on our project any more and there have been high level meetings about what a dick he is and why he can't work with us. I had the privilege of finding out he was an arrogant, lazy, disrespectful dick within 10 minutes of meeting him. Sometimes just being a woman is like possessing dick litmus paper.

Has anyone mentioned the cousin of the Mansplainer - the Jokesplainer?

You know, when you make a deft and witty joke that's a subtle allusion or pun.... you leave it hanging there to be appreciated and some man picks it up and kills it BY MAKING THE JOKE AS IF FOR THE FIRST TIME BUT IN A MUCH MORE CRUDE AND OBVIOUS WAY. Because they think you haven't realised you have made a joke! They think you have just coincidentally said something that connects, but THEY, WITH THEIR MANLY BRANES, CAN MAKE IT INTO A JOKE.

@Lweji

The 'limbuc system' is also funny.

I wasn't far off

Nice way of not giving a link

There are also plenty of journals and reports you can't view unless you pay. Tat would have been the easier way of not providing a link

@Lessthanaballpark

Oh for goodness sake, how on earth do you test logical ability in babies?!

The looked for amounts of electrical activity in areas of the brain which control these aspects. As I said.

And again, why do you make the assumption that having empathy leads to a lack of logic?

Where did I say that?

There are also plenty of journals and reports you can't view unless you pay. Tat would have been the easier way of not providing a link

It depends. I get access to many journals. :)

And you can link to an actual journal and abstract. Harder to "fake".

"Because you study a large group of people and look for trends. A study of one person of either sex will tell you nothing. I know full well that I don't conform to many of the 'standard' traits of women. I'm confident in many situations and have had to work throughout my life not being overbearing. I can be very single minded and a poor multitasker. I'm not the most empathetic of people and have an extremely logical brain. I worked in STEM and now, the vast majority of my peers are male."

I understand how statistical works, it's a a thing I do. I have worked in STEM for most of my adult life and only stopped because I moved into another male dominated field. What I'm saying is, there are far too many people who don't conform to the concept that they can't be described as random anomalies or statistical outliers. That suggests it isn't a trend that is due to male/female brains and to suggest it is would be due to either bad analysis of the data or an effort to deliberately make the data fit a preexisting supposition.

I also have access to many journals, so link away.

@Lweji - As I said earlier, I got a preview when it was being peer* reviewed ie. it is not published. I realise that this could easily sound like I made up the work but that's the thing about an anonymous chat forum... you have to decide what you believe. I realised earlier I said, 'log on'. I meant to my google docs to check a few facts like age of the babies tested.

Of course, they may be huge flaws in the work which mean it's never published in a respected journal.

You'll have to trust me. If you don't I will be PM'ing you at sometime in the future having hunted for permission to prove an anonymous woman on the internet 'wrong'

Surely it's not the only one.

There are lots.

PNAS

"Analysis of these changes developmentally demonstrated differences in trajectory between males and females mainly in adolescence and in adulthood. Overall, the results suggest that male brains are structured to facilitate connectivity between perception and coordinated action, whereas female brains are designed to facilitate communication between analytical and intuitive processing modes."

Not babies, but this spoke about the changes when our children have already been ruined through gendering (according to some). The account for delay appears to be biological.

Sex Differences in the Brain

"On average, there are likely to be some areas that are more strongly feminized in a female and others that are more strongly masculinized in a male, but averages are never predictive of an individual’s profile. Moreover, a mosaic is not a blend—there is not a continuum of maleness to femaleness—and there are many parameters that are neutral in regard to sex, with no consistent differences between males and females."

These studies cannot eliminate the nature / nurture argument and no ethical experiment truly can, from my limited understanding.

@SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed

What I'm saying is, there are far too many people who don't conform to the concept that they can't be described as random anomalies or statistical outliers.

Are there? Link?

suggest it is would be due to either bad analysis of the data

I'm not a statistician- (beyond a hard-won O Level). I understand the basics but if you can explain to a layman why these are all incorrect, I'd appreciate it.

Also, [no sarcasm], you seem extremely sure that these stats are being interpreted poorly or willfully misused. Not many scientists have come out as firmly in either nature or nurture camp and it's very much up in the air with theories being explored.

Doesn't the quote from the second article explain why there can be so much overlap or difference or 'non-conformity.

*I'm not a peer. It's well beyond my area of expertise.

I've opened the PNAS one.
The other is a popular science magazine and about model organisms.

I have no time atm to read either.

But the PNAS studied "a cohort of 949 healthy subjects aged 8–
22 y (mean ± SD = 15.11 ± 3.50 y)"

The issue of socialization raises its ugly head again. The brain is very plastic and can adapt to use.

Saskia….”Because you study a large group of people and look for trends. A study of one person of either sex will tell you nothing. I know full well that I don't conform to many of the 'standard' traits of women. I'm confident in many situations and have had to work throughout my life not being overbearing. I can be very single minded and a poor multitasker. I'm not the most empathetic of people and have an extremely logical brain. I worked in STEM and now, the vast majority of my peers are male.”

Mars…”I understand how statistical works, it's a a thing I do. I have worked in STEM for most of my adult life and only stopped because I moved into another male dominated field. What I'm saying is, there are far too many people who don't conform to the concept that they can't be described as random anomalies or statistical outliers. That suggests it isn't a trend that is due to male/female brains and to suggest it is would be due to either bad analysis of the data or an effort to deliberately make the data fit a preexisting supposition.”

Perhaps time to suggest that mansplaining, although it’s definitely a thing, is a subset of boorishness - which can be displayed by either sex.

Boorishness happens when a ‘social inferior’ is talked down to by a ‘social superior’ in circumstances where the inferior can’t respond without upsetting convention. Obviously, the inferior suffers loss of face and becomes, understandably, angry and frustrated.
Speaking as a male (and thus not sure I can comment on the greater occurrence of male boorishness towards women), I’ve met boorishness from both sexes in fairly equal portions, it just manifests in different ways. My ex MIL (think Hyacinth Buckett, without the charm) was an expert at putting down people whom she considered inferior and who couldn’t argue back.

Were your two quotes suggesting we were being boorish to each other?

I guess you're right, suggesting that mansplaining is a subset of boorishness (or perhaps condescending or patronising or other near-synonyms) and both sexes are capable of it.

I guess the bit that irks me is that it is ironically sexist, there is no need to distinguish this subset in such insulting terms and that either sex being capable of it simply makes it more irksome.

I guess I was mansplaining being ironically boorish...

My dad is the ultimate mansplainer. I almost hit him at Xmas when he interrupted a conversation my mum and I were having (about Donald Trump) to tell us that we didn't understand the situation and to lecture us at some boring length about what the real issue was. In the past he has laughed when I said something about feminism and said "I think I know a bit more about it than you, alltouchedout" (because, you see, he has been a feminist since before I was born, although I would not agree he was a feminist at all- but what do I know?). Most recently, he explained to me why something I do very regularly in my job could never actually happen. And that I must be mistaken, of course I don't do it, it doesn't happen. He has never worked in anything remotely like my field.

alltouched

In all those annoying videos and presentations and lectures, people say that if you believe in equality for the sexes then you are a feminist regardless of your sex. This ridiculous notion doesn't mean that your father is less a feminist that you because of his penis. I'd say that if he'd seen feminism when women truly were not treated as equals then he may well know more than you.

It's not my father's penis that leads me to believe he is not a feminist, but thank you for explaining my beliefs to me .

when women truly were not treated as equals

Interesting expression.
What do you mean by this?

In fact, an odd post all round

In all those annoying videos and presentations and lectures
Annoying?

people say that if you believe in equality for the sexes then you are a feminist regardless of your sex. This ridiculous notion doesn't mean that your father is less a feminist that you because of his penis.

What is ridiculous? Why?
And, if anything, that notion would mean that the father could easily be just as much a feminist, if he really believed in equality of the sexes.

It's not my father's penis that leads me to believe he is not a feminist

This has got to be one of the greatest sentences ever written.

I should tell him his penis and status as a feminist are now subject to discussion on mumsnet. That might actually, for the first time ever, leave him speechless.

Sorry but it doesn't beat ' I know chips"