Mansplaining

[Featherstickers]

Is it a thing? Or another media cliché?

I believe Dh is a huuuuuge mansplainer and I find it frustrating infuriating at times.

AIBU to ask if it's a real thing and how to cope with it to protect my sanity.

I find quite a lot of people (who are almost all men, coincidentally) tell me how to solve the problem they think I have instead of answering the question I actually asked. They don't appear to listen carefully, or assume my basic competence.

I also find most of the people who explain to me things which I already know, and are reluctant to stop when I try to forestall them, are also men. It doesn't bother me as much when a woman does it, because she doesn't usually have a patronising time of voice- it feels as though she is trying to be overly helpful rather than point out her own superiority.

I think there is a difference between attributing things to sex, and attributing them to gender socialisation in a patriarchal society.

It's real and it's rubbish. But - bloke commenter alert - when it comes to looking after your child, there's nothing quite so infuriating as womansplaining. As if a father is somehow genetically programmed to be incapable of caring for his child. No matter if you're the primary carer, far too many women assume you're in dire need of assistance, or have forgotten something essential.

Sorry for the derailing.

Oh this whole fucking thread has been derailed, wouldn't worry. You at least brought it back this the original topic.

Yea mansplaining is a thing. Enough of us have enough experience of it.

Durness, is that random women, when you are out and about? Or your DP?

I feel I need to explain things in detail to DH, because he is not the main carer, and thinks he knows what's what when he doesn't. He then falls into difficult situations that experience has taught me to engineer out (trapped by the vending machines with a screaming two year old etc).

No reason for that if you are the main carer, though.

I think there is a difference between attributing things to sex, and attributing them to gender socialisation in a patriarchal society.

Definitely picklemepopcorn

"I was referring to whoever advised you to "read up on neuroplasticity" even though that's the topic of your MSc."

Fernanie that was me and it was condescending of me but she'd pissed me off with her stupid "ladyparking is innate" bollocks.

I find it hard to believe that someone with a Masters in Neuroplasticity hasn't studied the way the brain responds to its environment thus increasing the gap between sex differences over time due to socialisation that can easily be reduced through training. As has been shown in quite a few studies.

53rd

Do you think I'm some stereotype of a dungaree-wearing militant feminist who thinks feminism is about claiming all men are evil?

Not as such but I have an opinion heading towards that when I hear comments like "all men..." (don't think you've said that) or "mansplaining" without a sense of irony.

Lweji

Has this theory not been largely debunked?

No. There was a new study very recently (I can't log on to access the journal at the moment) showing huge differences, not so much in physical structure but synapse activity in babies >1 months old.

The jury is still out but in my two main areas of work in my life, I think I've seen evidence (if simply due to large numbers) of "pink vs blue brains". Most of my colleagues in education think the same. This is different to not providing support to any child to achieve whatever they want, this is recognising differences between individuals as well as commonalities in groups.

picklemepopcorn

That sounds extremely close to patronising to me, which of couse is all that mansplaining it. It patronising someone.

At least on the evidence of this thread, most mansplainers also do it to other men and women seem quite likely to mansplain.

My ex once explained to me where the nerve endings were in my vagina, and where the sensitivity was best, I'm pretty sure he was mansplaining
An old boss told me he had just heard the term "mansplaining" but the woman who said it was mistaken as the guy was probably talking too much just to impress her and showing off, so I explained that if the woman is the expert it's quite rude to show off as if you know more than her and it happens a lot to female experts but he said he didn't think that was true.....

There's a difference between entering into a heated discussion on an online forum and giving someone advice or an explanation that they didn't ask for.

I don't know which aspect of education you work in but the TAs and teachers at DS's school are full of gender stereotyping. It's horrendous.

My point with regards to the blue pink brain thing is not that there are no innate differences but that there are huge differences in socialisation which have an effect. And that declaring loudly that boom! you've found a study that proves girls are doomed to have less spatial awareness is part of that socialisation.

Lessthan I passed my MA 20 years ago. Being an MA it was in a non-scientific field but even so, that field has moved on quite substantially since. I've kept up with those changes as I still work in that field, but had I moved away from it, I wouldn't be complaining expertise in it, just a (slightly out of date) PG qualification. Masters are good degrees, yes. But generally they take 12 months of study so whilst they give you more knowledge than the general population and the tools to start your own research, they don't make you an expert.

Also, "I have a masters actually" is a bit of a blanket statement. If you passed it three years ago and have continued researching you're presumably very knowledgeable. If you passed it 30 years ago and haven't done anything with it since, it won't actually count for that much anymore. And of course, all points in between those two. All of which is a long winded way of saying, having a masters is great but on its own it doesn't make you an expert.

Tired - I think Freud was one of the ultimate mansplainers. "No, you must have a vaginal orgasm, and if you don't, you're not a proper woman". Blah, blah, blah.

Complaining expertise? Damn, not enough coffee and too much clock changing. "claiming expertise"

I have been mansplained to twice recently and both times have left me feeling like an idiot and weak for not speaking up about it straight away. I don't seem capable of saying 'I know, you patronising bastard. Would you say any of this if I was a man?'

I was jump starting a friend's car outside a pub. I have owned a fair number of complete bangers in my time and I know how to do this with my eyes shut.

Man clutching pint comes out of pub and proceeds to tell me what to do in a step-by-step fashion (usually after I had done the step in question). Then I attached the last black clip to the chassis he nearly shouted at me 'for fuck's sake. What are you doing?! That goes on the battery. You'll blow yourself up!'

Wanker.
Mansplaining and wrong to boot.

And then when I was buying a new laptop. I am a techie. I buy hundreds for work and I know what I wanted. I had researched it, worked out what I wanted it for and knew I had found the right one for me.

Got to the shop - and the man started shaking his head and rolling his eyes 'no. You don't want that one. You'll crash it with your internet shopping. What do you want it for anyway'

He wasn't selling to me, by the way. I can accept advice from someone actually selling something to me. This was after I had paid for it and was waiting for it to be brought from the warehouse. It wasn't helpful. It was mansplaining.

And to make it worse, did I say 'actually, I know what I'm talking about and I think you're wrong'

Nope.

Blushed. Felt tears pricking in my eyes (frustration and annoyance, not upset tears). He just made me feel so stupid.

And neither of those things would have happened if I had been a man.

I don't know which aspect of education you work in

Head of a mixed independent school for children from 2 1/2 to sixth form.

My point with regards to the blue pink brain thing is not that there are no innate differences but that there are huge differences in socialisation which have an effect.

So there are biological as well as from the environment. Absolutely.

declaring loudly that boom! you've found a study that proves girls are doomed to have less spatial awareness is part of that socialisation.

Many studies. We're more likely to be better at multi-tasking. These are studies of large groups, not a single child. That is biological. Also, you're saying 'girls' covering a whole sex. I'm talking about trends. Very different things. Being aware of trends is a necessity but we need to be aware that we aren't reinforcing stereotypes.

lifeissweet

You know there's a middle ground between saying "I know, you patronising bastard" and starting to cry because someone in a shop criticised your choice of laptop?

neither of those things would have happened if I had been a man

Blushing or crying?

I didn't cry.
I get frustrated and it makes me eyes prickle.
I blush because I'm suppressing the urge to get cross.

It is all suppression. It is something I have learned to do because I was not permitted to express emotions in my family.

I am intrigued by "mansplaining". I had noticed it before the word was created and called it "professor-speak". Specifically, I play a certain arcane style of blues guitar and would watch a lot of youtube clips to "borrow" certain things from other players.

Many, many of the mainly older, grey-bearded white guys who, like me, seem drawn to this music will rattle on and on about the history and such in a certain strident, instructive way. A common thread is "black suffering in the Southern USA". Who knew?

With youtube you can just fast forward, but sometimes there are live clips of the guy at a show and between each song he bangs on about history. I am glad I am not in the audience.

At any rate, I have developed a theory, after noticing it in other settings, that it may be a power gambit. I catch myself doing it with my family....my voice gets slightly deeper and louder...like when you are signalling to a toddler that they are beginning to misbehave - or an instructor at the beginning of class.

I think it is real, having read a few things on it....a way to monopolise and assert dominance. I think it may be particularly troublesome to women in that there is a lot of socialisation on the idea of "command" and just plain sexism, with the added biological trait that men have deeper voices....which may be associated with concepts of authority.

My DH mansplains. I let him continue whilst looking like this . He always ends the talk with "I'll shut up then"

Bit late to this thread. I'm a bloke and mansplaining definitely exists. I have seen some cringeworthy examples where fellow senior lead female engineer friends are having some bloke down the pub after work lecture her about supposed developments in her field of expertise because he had see some programme on Dave the week before.

I have though, also seen perfectly valid points of view or opinions being dismissed as 'mansplaining' by women purely it would seem on the basis that they just don't like the view being held. It's a bit of a cheap shot way to shut someone up.

Who was the character Harry Enfield played?

"You don't want to do it like that......"

My DH and I were decorating the other day. I've decorated for years and can paint very well, even if I do say do myself. I mostly paint whilst he's at work but we were doing it together this time. I was glossing a door and he came along to explain.

I did that impression of Harry Enfield above lol.

I have though, also seen perfectly valid points of view or opinions being dismissed as 'mansplaining' by women purely it would seem on the basis that they just don't like the view being held. It's a bit of a cheap shot way to shut someone up.

Well yes, the validity/truth of a statement has nothing to do with the way a person says it. If it is a doctor telling you exactly how to take a dangerous medicine you pay attention.

But, and I may have seen this on Dave, a lot of these display communications served (and still may) an important function before higher forms of communications developed.

Think of a rattlesnake....it's not really an evil bastard shaking its tail to be threatening....it is giving you a warning that it just wants to be left alone and will even go as far as negating its camouflage advantage to let you know.

A lot of these behaviours in the animal kingdom seem to be about actually avoiding conflict.

It definitely happens, and increasing awareness of it is a good thing, since I imagine most men don’t want to be known as crushing bores. The fact that women can be patronising doesn’t mean it isn’t gendered behaviour; there doesn’t have to be an exact correlation for the relationship to exist.

That said, it wasn’t an issue I noticed when I worked in a field which was 60% women. This has made the phenomenon very apparent when I moved to a field which was 80-90% men. It’s not the men who work in my field who give me problems, by and large. They can better assess my competence, and also are aware of the gaps in theirs. It’s men who have no experience who appear to think that because I work in a traditionally male area, they must know more about it than me - despite all evidence to the contrary - and feel the need to corner me in the pub to try to assert this expertise.

The last time it happened, I ended up breaking it down for them as follows:

I have studied this for x years. I have worked in this field. I have these qualifications. I have done this research. I have these publications. I have lectured on these modules, I have read, at my last count, 700 papers on this matter, I provide peer review to other experts on this topic.

You have: not studied this area; not worked in this field; no qualifications in this area; done no research in this area; no publications in this area and not attended, let alone given, any lectures on this topic.

But you have: read two articles. Both of which I have also read. One is a two pager in New Scientist, a decent summary, but written by someone with no first hand knowledge. The other is an opinion piece, written by someone who is funded by a major stakeholder and who freely admits they are not independent. I know this because I have talked to them at conferences on a number of occasions.

A pair of testicles.

Well, they must be bloody massive testicles, mate, given you appear to believe they outweigh all the other points.

And still they keep on: No, no, no. You haven’t considered…

I have considered it. I considered it five years ago, for ten minutes, then concluded it was a stupid idea, and furthermore I can think of at least a dozen papers off the top of my head which prove why it’s a stupid idea, which I can send to you, if you like.

No, no, no, you haven’t considered…

Yes, I have. Because unlike you, I am an expert in my field, and considering this stuff is, in fact, what I am paid to do.

No, no, no, on and on, ad infinitum.

What reward they get out of this behaviour I have no idea. It is literally laughable; people are laughing at them. I can only conclude that for some people negative attention is better than no attention.

Just remembered my favourite example.

After about twenty minute discussion on the subject, guy interrupts me with great confidence to say: "Yeah, but you haven't actually worked on [x project] though."
Me: (surprised, as this was what we had been discussing) "Yes, I have."
Him: "No. You worked at [y place] but not on [x project].
Me: I worked on [x project]. I worked on x project between [date] and [date] at [y place.]
Him: But not actually on [x project]
Me Yes, on [x project]. That's why I'm now doing [z piece of work on x project]
Him: ...
Me: That's what we've just been talking about?
Him: changes subject.

So not only was he trying to explain my work to me, he then tried to explain my CV to me. Because obviously I couldn't have possibly worked on [x project] because he was explaining [x project] to me. And if I had worked on [x project], then I might actually know more about it than he did.

(And also he clearly hadn't listened to anything I'd said.)

Picklemepopcorn... My wife to a degree, yes, though that's as much to do with her having very strong views and struggling to deal with me advocating alternative approaches. My female friends are fine.

It's more a general sense in conversation: casual acceptance between female work colleagues that this is more their domain*, or the well-intentioned but exasperating tendency for women to tell my wife I'm some kind of hero for looking after our daughter while she works long hours or socialises. I'm just doing what I should, it's nothing special and no one would put a woman on a pedestal in this way if she were in my position.

*This horrifies me as it totally undermines the cause of gender equality (of opportunity, never mind outcomes). We really will get nowhere with encouraging men to shoulder more parental and domestic responsibilities if they're continually told they're second best.

miles

You aren't Mary Beard, are you?

mars

You know there's a middle ground between saying "I know, you patronising bastard" and starting to cry because someone in a shop criticised your choice of laptop?

Fuck me thats rude