DD thinks I'm v v v U. DH thinks I'm a bit U. I'm interested in your views

[chastenedButStillSmiling]

DD is 15, and I start her bedtime process at 9 (to be clear, her bedtime process is private and involves only her - we don't bath her any more! But 9 is when I tell her it's bedtime). It takes her about 3/4 hour to be in the bathroom at night (5 mins in the mornings!), so the time she goes to bed is regularly about 9:45 pm.

She has sporting activities on both weekend days, which require her to be at the site, breakfasted and in kit at 7:45 (Saturday am) and 9:00 (Sunday am). She LOVES these activities.

But because she has to be there so early, I keep her w/end bedtime similar to her weekday one.

I should also say, DH (bless him!) doesn't drive, so I have to facilitate all these activities. (don't turn on DH... he's an amazing dad in a gazillion ways. He just hasn't got a driving licence. But he does LOADS, including most of the cooking for her, and he makes up the lack of his driving to me where he can)

DD thinks it's outrageous I tell her to go to bed so early during the week and she's beyond furious I also do it at weekends.

But she gets really, really tired. And she leads a very physical life. She does LOTS of sport.

On the other hand, I also facilitate everything for her... I take her and collect her to EVERYTHING and usually stay to watch and cheer her on (DH often comes along to do this too). And I facilitate her social life massively (partly because she's an only child, so I don't have to split my time). So a typical conversation on a Saturday day might be
Her I'm going into town but don't know whether to cycle or take the bus
Me why don't you cycle and if you need a lift home [because it's dark and you've got not lights/would be cycling alone], call me and I'll put your bike in the back of the car

I'm also very generous about lifts for her friends. She has a new-ish set of friends, so it's different to when they were all at primary and all the mums stood together on the playground. Back then, the kids would come out saying things like "we can join guides!" or "here's a leaflet about a hockey club, and I really want to do it" and all the mums would have a quick conflab, and lift-shares would be organised in the twinkling of an eye and it was always pretty fair.
Now she's got a new set of friends, who don't all live as locally and I don't know the parents (very well). Plus in her group of around 6, 2 of them are single mums due to bereavement of their DH's (which seems like a high statistic to me, but is the actual fact) or have other siblings which means that they can't leave them home alone.
So I do a LOT of driving her 'crew' home after parties/events during holidays and stuff and it's late. 10, 11, after midnight. And I'm generous about welcoming children who need a lift and dropping them at their doors. DD appreciates these moments when they happen, but doesn't retain that gratitude or bank it for later!

When she's not got to get up, I don't send her to bed. And when she can, she'll sleep for 12 hours plus (for day after day). I understand that teenagers do need to sleep, so when I'm sending her to bed, I'm not the bitch she thinks I am... I'm just trying to facilitate the rest I know think she needs.

She thinks I'm V U to tell her to go to bed. And not respecting her age and stage.
My DH kind-of agrees with her. And points out to me that other parents don't send their kids to bed. I point out that (a) if I don't tell her to go, she never makes the adult decision that "oh, I'm tired... I should go to bed now" or "I need an early night" and (b) other kids don't have to be up as early as her on weekends. So they have opportunities to catch up on their sleep that my DD doesn't have except in school holidays.

I think she needs the sleep. And I think I demonstrate over and over again that I help her do the things she wants to do.

The backstory (so as not to dripfeed) is that DD was an early riser from birth. Once she slept through, she woke up early. Really bloody early. (we read books, we tried methods.... nothing trained her out of it) but she slept the MOMENT her head hit that pillow. And it used to get to a particular point in the evenings, and you'd just see the tiredness sweeping over her... she'd go white, get black shadows under her eyes, be all weepy and not able to cope. Her waking gradually got later and later over the years (from regularly at 4 am to us being pleased she didn't wake until 5 and then didn't wake until nearly six [that phase lasted a good couple of years] and finally she learned to sleep in til around 7). At 10 she finally learned the art of sleeping in.... I think she learned to drop off again, rather than waking up and being all "I IS AWAAAAAKE". So to an extent, I carry that history with me.

So, should I back off? And let her choose her bedtime? She's on her GCSE course, so she needs to be alert in school.

but I will take your guidance.

Thanks for listening, and sorry it's long.

There is no way I'd have a ten year old staying up til 2am (as someone said earlier) because' they need to work it out for themselves.' Sod that. I'm a parent and if they don't take responsibility, it's down to me to make sure they do. They only time I leave them to it is when they really telly won't listen and I let them learn the hard way

Do it during school days. (although, maybe half an hour later?)

However, on the weekend? It's a hobby/a leisure activity.

If she's tired? Well, that's her problem, right. And it's not like school would suffer.

You could have a rule of "no mobile phones" or whatever after 11 on weekends?

Foureyes, surely there is a very wide middle ground between "being left to self-regulate" at the age of 14 and being given step-by-step instruction about every movement?

And surely it is a parents' responsibility to gradually negotiate that change and teach independence over the years before they reach university?

Letting teenagers self-regulate and supervising them like toddlers seems to me equally lazy: either way suggests that you are not willing to do the hard and sustained work of helping them bridge the gap between childhood and adulthood.

And btw I also teach university students. And I don't find the ones who have been cosseted and micro-managed do all that well either. The ones who do do well are the ones who have clearly been able to think of themselves as young adults within a safe framework of high expectations and regular habits.

Foureyes I agree. How are these 'self regulating' kids who are up on their gadgets until 1am ever going to settle into normal sleep patterns? As parents the least we can do is guide them.
A friend of mine's ds was g&t at most subjects when he was 12 but by mid teens was up all hours of the night cooking burgers (?!?!) and x-boxing etc. He totally flunked his GCSEs.

I'm going to take my judgey hat off now and go for a nice long early morning walk

Bloody hell op, unless she has Sn, back off! She is 15, not 5! Stop babying her, and allow her to take responsibility.

Have come back to say that I really like the way this thread has gone - all the super competitive parents whose children have been self-regulating from birth have gone! I am sure the OP has had a lot of food for thought but I hope she understands now that her intentions are reasonable, even if her actions aren't the healthiest.

One particular class I have springs to mind. They cannot - and I genuinely mean cannot - help themselves in shouting out, swinging on chairs, zoning out, and tapping pens. They are a mixed ability class as well so no correlation between ability and behaviour.

In amongst them all is one lad who I know for a fact (as I know his parents) has a sense of structure and routine at home and he is attentive, mild mannered and never shouts out. He stands out a mile.

OP, I hope you find some sort of middle ground so your DD starts to feel a sense of accomplishment in being more independent, but please don't swing too far towards the other way because I bet anything your DD is known to her teachers at school for being a well-disciplined, pleasant and sunny student.

Our DS is still young. DH and I don't follow his every move, allow him to play freely, and are very happy letting him go round to play at anyone's house (clearly a big deal to some MNetters from what I've read). I don't care if sometimes he has smiley faces and beans for dinner nor does it bother me leaving him for a couple of nights with family or friends. But both DH and I will never compromise on his sleep pattern or allow him too much screen time because it just isn't good for young people.

Ah you sound a great mum and you know Its now time to back off a bit. I was similar with dc1, by dc4 not so much.

I think you are being unreasonable. I have a year 10 14 year old. She dances every night and plays two instruments, so is always really busy. I wouldn't dream of telling her when to go to bed. I do occasionally call out to her to turn her light out if it's gone 11 though.

Wow she's 15 ! She can leave home at 16 I got my own place at 16 and full time job because my parents were strict with some things , this wud of had me running at 16 , and if she chooses to do that she can do as she wishes I partied because I had nobody to stop me , so I'd cut her some serious slack and let her bed herself as and wen she sees fit before she rebels moved out and there is nothing u can do to stop her , your poor daughter I can imagine exactly how her life is with u treating her like a baby instead of the adult she is about to become please cut the apron strings and treat her as an adult I can understand her being only child and you don't want to let ur baby go

Wholeheartedly agree about a curfew for gadgets.

I do try to waft my 16 yo upstairs at 10.30, in the knowledge that he will read a bit, have a long shower, examine his spots , put some music on. It's probably midnight before he is actually asleep, but I don't poke my nose in. So long as he is winding down, ok. I just want him off the Switch, iPad, etc, because I'm sure they 'jangle' his brain and make it more difficult for him to sleep unless he's had a cooling off period.

Left to himself, he would stay on-screen as long as possible.

this thread scares me. Both DH & I were at boarding school so a fixed bedtime with lights off before 9pm was entirely normal for us. I have a great deal to learn before ours reach 15 :-(

There's a wide margine of difference between no guidance at all and a child who's still awake in the wee hours on a school night and micromanaging a person on the verge of adulthood so that they don't learn to self regulate and take responsibility for their decisions.

It IS hard but there's consequences at each extreme.

That's why it's a gradual process.

Just as when they're a toddler you don't go from nappies 24 hours to fully toilet trained in one night or even a week!

Op posted some appeasing posts but imo didn't seem to be completely accepting that they were at the micromanaging extreme.

Came to ask on mn Aibu (as many do on similar issues) PLUS not only was her dd already saying she was unreasonable (and yes teens don't always assess this correctly) but also ops dh had also said so. Op says he said 'a bit' but I wonder given op admits they are 'anxious' and 'controlling' if dh was trying to gently get this across to op without upsetting her/causing a disagreement?

I'm a Lp to a teen dd and it is hard to let go, to adjust from caring for them and managing every aspect because it's not just about control its how we show we care too.

I was just discussing this with my dd. She was saying a friend of hers (who has a very laissez faire mum) was remarking in a surprised way that dd now has a fair amount of freedom at weekends where when they first became friends (3 years ago!) I was more strict. Dd and I both shares the feeling of 'well yea! You're 3 years older!' Dd also in the same group has friends with stricter mum's and those friends are pushing hard against the rules they're expected to adhere to.

We all have times we're not sure we're getting it right, I've made mistakes so has dd but that's part of life and how we learn.

But the hope is to produce healthy, happy, sensible adults who go on to have our grandchildren so we can have a wry smile as they make the same mistakes we made or brand new ones

Cory I agree, moving towards self-regulation is the way to go over time, and the OP could start with weekends.

On the other hand, as people have also said, she has a daughter who sounds like she's doing very well, and participating in sport on weekends which as we all know is a key time for teenage girls to drop out of sport, feel self-conscious about their bodies, stop activity, so in some ways, she's keeping her daughter in good habits and I'm betting for all the moaning, her daughter sounds like she's flourishing, with friends, sports, attending events and parties and so on. I do see a lot of not self regulating not flourishing and quite depressed teens, so she must be doing something right, even if now is the time to let her dd have a bit more autonomy and freedom - choosing weekend bedtimes being the obvious one.

My teens are the same. Their circadian rythems have seen set since birth. Genetic probably. So early bed and early rising. Therefore late nights mean early rising still and grumpy sleep deprived kids. I've never been able to sleep in and my kids can't either.

By the time I was 15, my parents would sometimes go to bed before me. I knew there was a general expectation that I would be in bed by 11. And certainly that I would get a sensible amount of sleep in and do well in exams. As I did.

But by this age, I had been brought up by them for 15 years, I knew the expectations. I did not need to have every detail told to me every night, any more than I needed them to remind me to wipe my bum or clean my teeth. That was because they had already put that work in and could afford to trust me.

If they noticed me falling short, they would have given me a reminder (as they would if they had noticed my hygiene slipping). But they were willing to let me try first. As with the bum wiping and the tooth cleaning.

I think though that if they have a routine all be it flexible at the weekends from an early age they are better able to self regulate by mid to late teens.

You can't back off your teens they still need strong parents because there's so much temptation out there and quite frankly at 15 my kids homework would take them past 9 pm anyway.

Gadget curfew defiantly agree with carole especially the examining the spots.

Also depends on the child. My youngest is amazingly good at sorting her school work and social life out and has a really good balance at 17, her older brothers needed far more boundaries.

I would let her try self regulating but tell her you will review the situation weekly - if she's irresponsible/too tired you will take charge again

Yes cory exactly that's how we parent.

You are definitely being unreasonable, OP, but I expect you know that by now.
When I started reading your OP I thought you had accidentally missed a couple of words out and you were talking about a 15 month old. Think about that.
I've never actually heard of a parent starting a 'bedroom routine' for a teenager before. Very odd.

My son is at boarding school (same age) and has to be up early every day (morning school on Saturday and chapel on Sunday) and his 'lights out' is not until 2230.
I think you are BU.

Reading some of this makes me understand what my kids told me when they went to uni. At 18 mine were independent adults they told me about people who couldn't cope with the independence, drank too much, didn't go to bed and crashed out of uni. Now I understand. I do remember one hilarious young lady arriving at halls, she had to carry her things up a flight of stairs and you could hear her wailing, "how do they expect us to do this." At 18? I would be ashamed.

OP if she doesn't go to bed on time the world won't stop turning, she might be tired for a while as she adjusts but she will soon learn what she needs.

My kids never had a bedtime, they worked it out, I did have a bedtime as a kid but the rule was if you were in your bedroom and quiet it was up to you what you did so reading till midnight if I had a good book. Then I was tired the next morning but I survived and went to bed earlier that night.

Glad you are going to try something different OP, but you need to accept it might take her a while to figure it out but better now than later.

Please tell me she doesn't still have a bath before bed to 'settle' her?? Surely she should be able to bath/shower whenever she likes, rather than at a specified time?

At 15, I would've hated this. She's right to feel YABU and should be respected if your relationship is to survive into adulthood.

Flyhigh are they in single year dorms? we were mixed year so lights were off at time suitable for ages 12 - 16 (ie by 9) but we all had a different time to go upstairs / have access to showers / be in bed

I don't necessarily agree the OP micro manages all aspects of life. Plenty of parents take their children everywhere. I would wonder though if the OP's child genuinely wants to do this much sport.

Other posters need to stop saying "when I was that age" because quite frankly it just wasn't the same time as today. There's far too many pressures on students for them to be left to their own devices in an attempt to let them self-regulate.

I wonder how many of these parents who believe that by 15 they can make their own decisions are those who are the first to descend on AIBU when they believe the school has wronged their DC?

Everyone who says ' let them find their own bedtime' does know UK teenagers are the most sleep deprived in Europe, right??

And all the teachers on here are saying boy, does it reveal itself in our classrooms.