DD thinks I'm v v v U. DH thinks I'm a bit U. I'm interested in your views

[chastenedButStillSmiling]

DD is 15, and I start her bedtime process at 9 (to be clear, her bedtime process is private and involves only her - we don't bath her any more! But 9 is when I tell her it's bedtime). It takes her about 3/4 hour to be in the bathroom at night (5 mins in the mornings!), so the time she goes to bed is regularly about 9:45 pm.

She has sporting activities on both weekend days, which require her to be at the site, breakfasted and in kit at 7:45 (Saturday am) and 9:00 (Sunday am). She LOVES these activities.

But because she has to be there so early, I keep her w/end bedtime similar to her weekday one.

I should also say, DH (bless him!) doesn't drive, so I have to facilitate all these activities. (don't turn on DH... he's an amazing dad in a gazillion ways. He just hasn't got a driving licence. But he does LOADS, including most of the cooking for her, and he makes up the lack of his driving to me where he can)

DD thinks it's outrageous I tell her to go to bed so early during the week and she's beyond furious I also do it at weekends.

But she gets really, really tired. And she leads a very physical life. She does LOTS of sport.

On the other hand, I also facilitate everything for her... I take her and collect her to EVERYTHING and usually stay to watch and cheer her on (DH often comes along to do this too). And I facilitate her social life massively (partly because she's an only child, so I don't have to split my time). So a typical conversation on a Saturday day might be
Her I'm going into town but don't know whether to cycle or take the bus
Me why don't you cycle and if you need a lift home [because it's dark and you've got not lights/would be cycling alone], call me and I'll put your bike in the back of the car

I'm also very generous about lifts for her friends. She has a new-ish set of friends, so it's different to when they were all at primary and all the mums stood together on the playground. Back then, the kids would come out saying things like "we can join guides!" or "here's a leaflet about a hockey club, and I really want to do it" and all the mums would have a quick conflab, and lift-shares would be organised in the twinkling of an eye and it was always pretty fair.
Now she's got a new set of friends, who don't all live as locally and I don't know the parents (very well). Plus in her group of around 6, 2 of them are single mums due to bereavement of their DH's (which seems like a high statistic to me, but is the actual fact) or have other siblings which means that they can't leave them home alone.
So I do a LOT of driving her 'crew' home after parties/events during holidays and stuff and it's late. 10, 11, after midnight. And I'm generous about welcoming children who need a lift and dropping them at their doors. DD appreciates these moments when they happen, but doesn't retain that gratitude or bank it for later!

When she's not got to get up, I don't send her to bed. And when she can, she'll sleep for 12 hours plus (for day after day). I understand that teenagers do need to sleep, so when I'm sending her to bed, I'm not the bitch she thinks I am... I'm just trying to facilitate the rest I know think she needs.

She thinks I'm V U to tell her to go to bed. And not respecting her age and stage.
My DH kind-of agrees with her. And points out to me that other parents don't send their kids to bed. I point out that (a) if I don't tell her to go, she never makes the adult decision that "oh, I'm tired... I should go to bed now" or "I need an early night" and (b) other kids don't have to be up as early as her on weekends. So they have opportunities to catch up on their sleep that my DD doesn't have except in school holidays.

I think she needs the sleep. And I think I demonstrate over and over again that I help her do the things she wants to do.

The backstory (so as not to dripfeed) is that DD was an early riser from birth. Once she slept through, she woke up early. Really bloody early. (we read books, we tried methods.... nothing trained her out of it) but she slept the MOMENT her head hit that pillow. And it used to get to a particular point in the evenings, and you'd just see the tiredness sweeping over her... she'd go white, get black shadows under her eyes, be all weepy and not able to cope. Her waking gradually got later and later over the years (from regularly at 4 am to us being pleased she didn't wake until 5 and then didn't wake until nearly six [that phase lasted a good couple of years] and finally she learned to sleep in til around 7). At 10 she finally learned the art of sleeping in.... I think she learned to drop off again, rather than waking up and being all "I IS AWAAAAAKE". So to an extent, I carry that history with me.

So, should I back off? And let her choose her bedtime? She's on her GCSE course, so she needs to be alert in school.

but I will take your guidance.

Thanks for listening, and sorry it's long.

Back off. Let her try setting her own bedtime. You may also find for whatever reason she chooses to give up one of these activities so I hope you don't let her not have a say in that too.

Mine self regulated, generally were in bed at a reasonable time, did well at school, got good GCSEs and A levels and degrees. I think teachers notice the kids who appear to be tired that doesn't mean the kids they think are OK are sent to bed at 9 pm. No teacher ever suggested mine needed more sleep, probably because they didn't as they went to sleep when they needed to. It isn't rocket science and in many parts of the world it is entirely normal for children to go to sleep when they are tired.

When I was 15 I set my own bedtimes and often watched late night TV on Channel 4 (foreign subtitled films were my fave plus Jacobs crackers and cheddar cheese and tomato!) but also babysat for neighbours mid week and at weekends.

I still managed to get myself up but had the typical teenage laziness.

But then again we didn't have phones or iPads then. So I'd maybe have a word with her re screen use and how it can affect wind down time.

Everyone who says ' let them find their own bedtime' does know UK teenagers are the most sleep deprived in Europe, right??

But i just don't understand how it's possible to actually fit your day in at 15 and be ready for bed at 9.

When do you do homework? After school stuff? Sport? There aren't enough hours in the day to fit all that in by 9.

DD was sorting her own bedtime out at that age. She knows how tired she gets in the mornings and even now at 17 she is usually in bed by 10 on school nights.
I sympathise with you on the taking forever in the bathroom thing though. My DD now gets washed and in her PJ's straight after dinner so it's not as much of a problem, her little brothers room is next door to the bathroom and she got fed up of herding them back to bed (she makes a massive noise running the water and never shuts he door so the light wakes them too).

DD was sorting her own bedtime out at that age. She knows how tired she gets in the mornings and even now at 17 she is usually in bed by 10 on school nights.
I sympathise with you on the taking forever in the bathroom thing though. My DD now gets washed and in her PJ's straight after dinner so it's not as much of a problem, her little brothers room is next door to the bathroom and she got fed up of herding them back to bed (she makes a massive noise running the water and never shuts he door so the light wakes them too).

I'm a teacher. True, I wouldn't necessarily converse with the good ones about bedtime. It does come up at parents ' evenings though. The difficult ones generally have a commonality of homes : no routines, no structures, allowed out whenever , no bedtimes, games consoles and phones in rooms and no monitoring of this. Their brains never switch down and they become irritable, tired, sometimes depressed, and difficult to manage. they nearly all underachieve. When simple solutions like sleep and unplugging Xboxes is suggested to parents of the awkward squad, the parents seem amazed, as if this is the most watershed advice they have ever heard. Then , generally, they don't do it.

Parents have a responsibility to ensure their children get the amount of sleep and relaxation their developing brains need. Once they leave home, it's up to them but sleep habits do often stick for life.

My 12 yo does put himself to bed but it is at our suggested time (9.15). he then reads til about 9.50 . He is very routine driven so he probably has an exact time like 9.48!

The 15 yo wanders upstairs at 9.45 (again our time) only very occasionally sulking. Revision is from about 5.15 til 8 ish with a couple of breaks, but that will have to ramp up at some point.

Other have said they are doing homework til after 9. As a teacher, I don't advocate schoolwork after 9. Lots of our sixth formers think it is 'gown up ' to burn the midnight oil, take Proplus etc. And their parents don't seem to intervene. Teenagers do whatever they like in their bedrooms it seems, even if it is harmful.

I genuinely think OP overpadded her post so as not to be accused of withholding info and has now been painted as obsessive and controlling. Not at all. Caring, kind, involved. A good parent. Possibly on the protective end of the spectrum. I'd rather that than neglectful. Her daughter sounds like she is thriving.

You sound lovely OP I just think you need to relax the rules a little bit :) which you already knew I think

You sound extremely sweet and a fantastic Mum and some of you posters should stop being such snidey asswipes but having said that, I moved out at 16. Even my very controlling Mother wouldn't have made me go robbed that early. I'd possibly say please be device free from 9 but that's it.

My DS at that age wasn't leaving school til 6, home for half 6 dinner at 7 then upstairs and study with breaks until 10.

He had to be in school every day for 7am for pre-school sports training and he had sports on both Saturday and Sunday.

One night a week (Thursday) he also did scouts. (Helping with beavers from 7.30 then scouts himself until 9.30 but he wasn't home until 10 as he stayed behind to help clear up)

If he had been going to bed at 9 he wouldn't have been able to go to scouts and he wouldn't have got any homework done

Some teens are absolutely awful at ensuring they get enough sleep.

Mine show me endless texts and snap chat stuff that some of their mates send in the wee hours. They must be permenantly exhausted.

I've always been strict about bedtimes as we're a busy family and I cannot be arsed with bad tempers due to tiredness. By 15 I didn't really have the tell them though. They were in the habit of going up around 10pm.

Why not leave her to it for a bit OP. You might find she goes to bed early anyway.

I don't think you're controlling, or too enmeshed, or any of the things you've been called. The long post giving all the background was to explain what kind of child/person she is, because all children are different, and what works for one does not work for another.
I think youre being quite reasonable.

This however, No your dd will readjust her sleep patterns herself if she notices she is too tired. made me laugh. Yeah, like I did after I finished year 12, so sleep deprived I was hospitalised with glandular fever and Bell's Palsy. Yeah, that kind of self-regulation.

katyberry my son is now in a single room (for GCSE year) but when sharing it has always been with his year group.

When do you do homework? After school stuff? Sport? There aren't enough hours in the day to fit all that in by 9.

DS1's school sorts that nicely by never setting homework....

Notwithstanding, we make him do revision etc. He isn't an after school sports kind of guy, admittedly. He is ain a football team and trains one evening a week.

But school finishes at 3 - he is home by 3.30, had tea by about 5. Plenty of hours left.

I acknowledge that for children who are very involved in clubs and so on it can feel like there are not enough hours in the day. But I'd back pedal on all that in GCSE year rather than have mine doing school work after 9 o clock ( I'd say 9.30 for some, but gain it's about switching the brain off...)

Hahaha!!! At15 my curfew to come back home was 11pm, at this Time in their lives you need to let them make their own mistakes. She'll have to get up after a late night (or miss the activity she enjoys) and after a few times she should sort herself out.

How is she going to become independent if you do everything for her xx

I send my teens to bed through the week - of course I do! Sleep is incredibly important and we are so very bad at getting enough of it. even when we are dog tired, they know why it's so important for their physical and mental health as well as their success at school. We free wheel at weekends though.

Time to start letting her grow up mama.

You do a lot of facilitating she is a 15 year old girl not a work project I appreciate she is an only child but please give the girl some space to make some decisions for herself room at 9.45 but fgs let her decide when she sleeps there is so much in your post that says you are not allowing your child to grow up she isn't 9 she is 15

At age 15, my 'enforced' bedtime was 10pm, and it stayed at that time until I moved out of my parents house. My parents reasoning was that they went to bed at 10:30pm so I should go to bed first. It added to a huge sense of resentment, that they treated me as a little kid when I was an adult. It still rankles even now, and I'm in my forties.

Although you do sound a little over-involved in her life, I think you're probably right about bedtimes. My DS would be on his phone until 3am if allowed. He has a bedtime of around 10 (which effectively is the same as your DD) with no devices.

If we relax on this, he is shattered, foul and useless at school.

I would try to back off a little in other areas. Having been an only child with very 'keen' parents, it's quite suffocating, even if done with the best of intentions.

Glad you are going to give her some more independence. It may work out better than you could imagine. At 15 I worked Saturdays and Sundays 8 til 4 and was at the pub a couple of evenings a week watching bands til late. No bedtimes only curfews which were probably midnight. Still got a great set of gcses. Very benignly neglected by my parents basically, very occasionally offered a lift, and bought myself a moped at 16 so I could get to work on time. Given huge amounts of latitude I made pretty good decisions although now as a parent I would struggle to be as hands off. I appreciate not every child would make the same choices but how will you know unless you try? Good luck!

YABvvvvvU She is a teenager not a toddler, well old enough to be responsible for whether or not she is tired in the morning/getting enough sleep.

And what is all that stuff about driving, giving lifts, almost like you are trying to emotionally blackmail your DD into following your unreasonable dictates. Parents have been unpaid taxis since cars were invented, its part of the job.

At her age, I did homework until 8/9pm!

My parents NEVER had to tell me when bedtime was, at any age. When I felt tired, I put my PJs on, brushed my teeth, chose a book and got into bed. It was never a big deal in our house.

We had years of dd needing to be up early at weekends for training, and at that age, all we did was make sure that she woke up at the right time in the morning, and then we'd be available for taxi duty at the appointed departure time. If she was running late, then she would arrive at the venue late. She knew that; and that it was down to her whether she was late or not.

I'd back off totally tbh, and allow her to decide for herself what time she needs to go to bed. Let her know that you will be ready to go at a set time in the morning and leave her to get up and get ready in time.

Make an agreement with her that it's time for her to make her own decisions and to take responsibility for her own time management.

And bite your tongue when if she's running late!

When my DD2 was 15, I used to suggest it was time for bed on a school night at 9.30pm because she was one that needed lots of sleep - although often she would have already have made a move by then! On Fridays and Saturdays, I was more relaxed as I Thunk even if they have hobbies with early starts they need to start making some decisions themselves. DD2 is now at uni and often has early nights when she has 9am lectures ....and also has some very late nights early mornings too 😉