DD thinks I'm v v v U. DH thinks I'm a bit U. I'm interested in your views

[chastenedButStillSmiling]

DD is 15, and I start her bedtime process at 9 (to be clear, her bedtime process is private and involves only her - we don't bath her any more! But 9 is when I tell her it's bedtime). It takes her about 3/4 hour to be in the bathroom at night (5 mins in the mornings!), so the time she goes to bed is regularly about 9:45 pm.

She has sporting activities on both weekend days, which require her to be at the site, breakfasted and in kit at 7:45 (Saturday am) and 9:00 (Sunday am). She LOVES these activities.

But because she has to be there so early, I keep her w/end bedtime similar to her weekday one.

I should also say, DH (bless him!) doesn't drive, so I have to facilitate all these activities. (don't turn on DH... he's an amazing dad in a gazillion ways. He just hasn't got a driving licence. But he does LOADS, including most of the cooking for her, and he makes up the lack of his driving to me where he can)

DD thinks it's outrageous I tell her to go to bed so early during the week and she's beyond furious I also do it at weekends.

But she gets really, really tired. And she leads a very physical life. She does LOTS of sport.

On the other hand, I also facilitate everything for her... I take her and collect her to EVERYTHING and usually stay to watch and cheer her on (DH often comes along to do this too). And I facilitate her social life massively (partly because she's an only child, so I don't have to split my time). So a typical conversation on a Saturday day might be
Her I'm going into town but don't know whether to cycle or take the bus
Me why don't you cycle and if you need a lift home [because it's dark and you've got not lights/would be cycling alone], call me and I'll put your bike in the back of the car

I'm also very generous about lifts for her friends. She has a new-ish set of friends, so it's different to when they were all at primary and all the mums stood together on the playground. Back then, the kids would come out saying things like "we can join guides!" or "here's a leaflet about a hockey club, and I really want to do it" and all the mums would have a quick conflab, and lift-shares would be organised in the twinkling of an eye and it was always pretty fair.
Now she's got a new set of friends, who don't all live as locally and I don't know the parents (very well). Plus in her group of around 6, 2 of them are single mums due to bereavement of their DH's (which seems like a high statistic to me, but is the actual fact) or have other siblings which means that they can't leave them home alone.
So I do a LOT of driving her 'crew' home after parties/events during holidays and stuff and it's late. 10, 11, after midnight. And I'm generous about welcoming children who need a lift and dropping them at their doors. DD appreciates these moments when they happen, but doesn't retain that gratitude or bank it for later!

When she's not got to get up, I don't send her to bed. And when she can, she'll sleep for 12 hours plus (for day after day). I understand that teenagers do need to sleep, so when I'm sending her to bed, I'm not the bitch she thinks I am... I'm just trying to facilitate the rest I know think she needs.

She thinks I'm V U to tell her to go to bed. And not respecting her age and stage.
My DH kind-of agrees with her. And points out to me that other parents don't send their kids to bed. I point out that (a) if I don't tell her to go, she never makes the adult decision that "oh, I'm tired... I should go to bed now" or "I need an early night" and (b) other kids don't have to be up as early as her on weekends. So they have opportunities to catch up on their sleep that my DD doesn't have except in school holidays.

I think she needs the sleep. And I think I demonstrate over and over again that I help her do the things she wants to do.

The backstory (so as not to dripfeed) is that DD was an early riser from birth. Once she slept through, she woke up early. Really bloody early. (we read books, we tried methods.... nothing trained her out of it) but she slept the MOMENT her head hit that pillow. And it used to get to a particular point in the evenings, and you'd just see the tiredness sweeping over her... she'd go white, get black shadows under her eyes, be all weepy and not able to cope. Her waking gradually got later and later over the years (from regularly at 4 am to us being pleased she didn't wake until 5 and then didn't wake until nearly six [that phase lasted a good couple of years] and finally she learned to sleep in til around 7). At 10 she finally learned the art of sleeping in.... I think she learned to drop off again, rather than waking up and being all "I IS AWAAAAAKE". So to an extent, I carry that history with me.

So, should I back off? And let her choose her bedtime? She's on her GCSE course, so she needs to be alert in school.

but I will take your guidance.

Thanks for listening, and sorry it's long.

My teenagers still have a bedtime and they are 16 and 17. They go to bed at around about 10pm, weekdays or weekends except for the holidays and when we have stuff going on (for example dd is working from 11pm-3am tonight). It works for us. Mostly they will take themselves off at around about that time, but we remind them if they aren't on their way. Sleep is really important, and it's much better for sleep hygiene to have a regular pattern ('catching up' doesn't really work).

We are fairly vigilant about bedtime because dd has struggles with sleep and gets horrible migraines when she is over tired. ds gets some grief from his online friends but recognises that he feels and works better with more sleep so pushes back quite vigorously. He may not go to bed so early at university next year, but I think that his good sleep habits will be helpful.

Gosh. I had to be home at midnight at that age but the rest was up to me!

I think you're getting a slightly hard time though. I do think 15 now is very different to when I was 15, for better and worse. And I can see from your OP how it all comes from a place of love and care.

I think you have to give it a trial period of her letting her do her own thing. See how it goes, and then have a little think about whether these rules are to meet her needs, or to meet yours. I say that kindly.

My children are all in their 20s now, but I don't think I ever sent them to bed that early at that age. I would remind them at about 10, but no real firm bedtime. I am also a foster carer specialising in teens, and again no one that age has ever gone before 10 on a regular basis. However, I have found that being flexible about a bedtime actually teaches them a lot and being more relaxed means that very often they may decide to go earlier. Whereas a strict bedtime would leave them looking at the clock and even though they might be exhausted they refuse to go before they should. I have always found that just a casual reminder of the time is best and perhaps a reminder of that may have to do the next day. They are always up early at weekends too (unfortunately).

My youngest is 7, and I'm not that strict with him... she has to be given the chance to make decisions and learn consequences. Keep pushing and she will rebel / move out at the earliest opportunity

Sorry also meant to say none of the children I have looked after have ever had a set bedtime at weekends, and I think they are more self sufficient because of it.

I feel like I know this kid better than I know my own.

😂

At 15 I was out clubbing.

You need a hobby OP.

UNCLENCH.

As a previous poster suggested, let her handle it herself for a trial period and, if she gets up for school and manages all her activities, let her sort herself out. The only thing I would do at that age would be to put some rules around her phone/ internet access so she's not on social media all night.

Mate, stop it. Seriously. You're more involved in her life than she is.

chastenedButStillSmiling
Ok... shall we generously call this a "mixed reception" with a very slight bias to me being U ?

Talk about optimistic - more like 90/10

You realize she could be legally married and pregnant in about 18 months time? Will you hand over bedtime control to her DH?

Please back off op. My 10 year old goes to bed later and has more autonomy than that.

Well, I'm the opposite end of the spectrum. At 15 (and until I went to uni at 19) I didn't have a bedtime. I ended up staying up until 2, 3am because I wasn't mature enough to understand the consequences of not getting enough sleep. In the end I got so little sleep that I had a nervous breakdown and nearly had to drop out of sixth form. At the time I would have loathed my parents giving me a bedtime but looking back I wish they had. I wish at 10pm they'd turned off the Internet and at least made me go to my room. Even if I hadn't gone to sleep I would at least have been doing something relaxing like reading or listening to music. Every child is different and while some are mature enough to sort their own bedtime at 15, others aren't. So I would say maybe negotiate a new time with your DD but there's nothing wrong with ensuring she gets to bed at a reasonable hour.

I think it's coming from a good place, but micromanaging her like that isn't doing her any favors. She's not going to learn to function on her own that way.

I think the important thing is how many hours of actual sleep does she need nightly, and what time does she wake up in the mornings. Then work backwards to arrive at a sensible bedtime, in discussion with your daughter.

I don't think most posters on here have taken into account all the sporting activities the op's daughter does, and how tiring these can be on top of lots of academic work at this age too, with GCSE's and A levels.

My daughter (17) does a lot of dance. She's also taking 3 A levels. she chooses to get up at 6.30 am. during the week It's very noticeable when she hasn't had enough sleep and her ability to function well is impaired. School/college notice she is tired in class too. At this stage everything gets a bit frenetic and she starts to not cope very well with everything. Therefore even now, I often 'remind' her to get ready for bed but in reality it's more me telling her to go to bed. At 15 years old, I think her expected bedtime was about 10pm on school nights and if she had dance early the next day at weekends.

Some kids do an extraordinary amount of physical activity in their leisure time, and having to go to bed fairly early most of the time is just the price they have to pay to pursue their hobby in a committed way

I think parents can do a lot to help their children to develop the maturity mentioned by peach- by discussing things with them as adults, by having increasingly adult expectations on them. What I don't think is that you can draw any reasonable conclusions on how to treat a 15yo from experiences of treating a 13yo (as some posters above have done): they really do need to do a lot of growing up in those two years.

I would change the weekend activities! No way would I get up that early on weekends, not even for the olympics.

Your dd is lucky you care so much about her. I think there's a balance and it sounds like you have a good enough relationship to find the balance. Good luck!

I can't get past the first bit of the OP. Talk about micromanaging! You can't tell a 15yo when to go to bed!

I do think it's a bit concerning that her sleeping history as a toddler is something you "carry with you", now that she is on the verge of growing up.

My dd used to wear nappies as a toddler, and after that she went through a phase of wetting herself. As toddlers do. This is not something I "carry with me": I don't sniff her bottom to see if she has done a poo and I don't urge her to do a wee-wee before she sets off for work. Her toddler history is not relevant to today's situation.

I agree with PP. You are trying to micromanage your daughters life. Back off and let her make her own decisions - I am sure some of them will prove to be poor choices but better she makes mistakes now than in 5-15 years time when bad decisions could cost her a job or a home.

This whole thread should go in the PFB confessions thread in classics

You've taken it like a champ though, OP.

My DCs were all involved in sport, up very early every day for practice before school. For example, DD1 did swimming and water polo in consecutive school semesters for two years and had practice for two thirds of the school year from 6am to 7.45, with school from 8 to 3, followed by two more hours of practice, with a few meets a week too and occasionally a tournament on a Saturday. She was not home from many of the meets until 11ish, and then she would get stuck into her homework, and get to bed whenever she was finished. The girls on her teams used to try to get homework done between races, on the bus, etc. (The bus was a school bus - no parental schlepping required).

I never had a set bedtime for any of my DCs - they usually went to bed about 9 as children, but once they got into the heavy sport and homework years they went to bed whenever they had satisfied all of their commitments with all of their goals in mind as they tried to balance time and effort constraints. The decision about bedtime was theirs alone.

They all liked to socialise, and found time for this on many a weekends.

would you do if your teen went to bed at 2am when you left her to it? Would you go back to a bedtime? [Gandalf]
Mine managed their own time, schedule and workload. They were all up til 2 frequently, and got themselves up in the morning (using both alarm clocks and their phones which obv stayed in their bedrooms) from about age 10.

They grew up in a grade point average system, with no make or break exam at the end of the year that they could swot for. They had to be doing their best work all the time all year to maintain a high GPA. The experience stood to them in university.

The most important thing to learn from the sport experience is self discipline; this can't be practiced or learned if someone else is facilitating everything and organising your life for you.

Meant to italicise...

My parents stopped imposing a bedtime when I was about 12. I stayed up till 11 o'clock for a couple of nights, felt exhausted, and thereafter voluntarily went up at 9 for most of the rest of my schooldays.

Trial period in holidays, let her learn to self-regulate a bit.

You do also need to lighten up just slightly.

Also imagine your DD on a good academic/social track etc through life. But unless you slacken the leash now a bit, she's also on track for a period of serious rebellion at some point. Not definitely, but quite likely.

Could be in sixth form, or she could be someone who ends up in hospital for alcohol poisoning during Fresher's Week at Uni. Or maybe when she goes to University she will just not be able to cope at all without being micro-managed by you.

So you're potentially storing up trouble for the future.

It's more than a slight bias to U. And, as for naming and shaming, you're not the mum of everyone. Although your DD does probably wish you'd take out some of all that mumming on someone else!

Well you've been quite reasonable in your responses, but yes, you do have to let her do it her way, at least for a while. Once she twigs that she's too tired to go to bed much later than she already is, she should settle down and will probably end up going to bed around the same time as she does now, but with the difference that it is now her choice to do so.

She's got to learn. And she will, if you let her.