Katie Hopkins

[notanothernamechangebabes]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4340290/Truth-t-like-says-KATIE-HOPKINS.html

AIBU to think Katie Hopkins is straying closer and closer to the line that separates legitimate "right wing" politics, and unacceptable "far right" extremism?

I find this article a) utterly incoherent in its argument and b) utterly abhorrent in its content....

Yesterday's attack is deeply deeply saddening- we live in London and we're heartbroken that this has happened again- but I actually find Katie's bile almost as saddening and troubling- as I fear these are views held by many many more people... sure these are just words, and yesterday saw vile, violent actions... but those actions would have begun with words of hate and anger too...

Yes I'm afraI'd that altough many of my friends are muslim even they can see there is a problem.

Denying it will not fix it. You need to help Muslims to report things and reassure them that the response will be fair and measured.

If Muslims think that by reporting their brother for sounding a bit crazy one day, they are going to subject the family to a massive raid and place a question mark over their whole family then they are less likely to flag it up with the authorities early.

Can you see the bias creeping in?

ffs, they interviewed a representative sample. ICM are a reputable and un biased polling company.

If anything this under reports the actual number as many people will be shy about admitting they believe that homo sexuality should be made illegal.

no one on the thread has done that.

I feel very sorry for the moderate UK Muslims actually as this makes their lives much harder too.

It's a confounded mess

Lweji - of course it is.

But individual homicides committed by someone who probably knew their victim don't affect society in the same way. They don't affect people's ability to enjoy a day out or work or the economy when tourists don't visit. Look at the people in Tunisia following that incident - their tourist industry was decimated!

That is another evil part of the ideology - it's seeking to affect as many people as possible.

You're comparing a rotten apple with a rotten pear IMO.

Same as if a family member suspected another for being involved in the IRA for example.

I think this the crux - liberals think this is ok

noone has said it's OK. How ridiculous.

Well I'm afraid that was said! That this was an isolated incident this no action needed.

That is what is ridiculous.

ffs, they interviewed a representative sample. ICM are a reputable and un biased polling company

No they interviewed a sample of Muslims who lived in an area that was 20% or more Muslim.

There is a difference.

The fact you can't see that shows your cognitive bias - you want to believe it's true.

www.icmunlimited.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Mulims-full-suite-data-plus-topline.pdf

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/12/what-do-muslims-think-skewed-poll-wont-tell-us

While the full details of the methodology are yet to be revealed, it seems there are serious questions. From the outset, it was carried out in areas where Muslims formed more than 20% of the population. These happen to be some of Britain’s most deprived neighbourhoods, with a disproportionately high number of people with a Pakistani or Bangladeshi ethnicity. Choosing specifically to poll in areas that are poor and more religiously conservative skews the results and makes them indicative of these areas and not of British Muslims nationally. And while Muslims were polled face to face – because, as Phillips says, he wanted to avoid the failures of the past – the control group was polled via telephone

thats far from saying its OK

southall

It's ok though - there are many people on MN and elsewhere who keep repeating debunked statistics time and time again to get people to change their views on a minority group, You're not the only one.

I hope you're right smilingmind, but in reality it's not that simple.

An example. I mentor a young Muslim man and over the years we have become friends. He is very successful and hardworking. However, his younger brother was given the same opportunities but chooses not to work (he has a good degree so refuses to start at the bottom therefore no-one will employ him). He rarely leaves his room, spends his day on the internet and has become disenchanted and feels persecuted. My friend and his family are terrified he will become radicalised. If it should happen then he would take the whole family (who are respectable people) down with him, as I said, guilty by association. The answer is to address the bigotry in the first place. Here we have an angry man looking for a cause, somewhere to lay the blame for his own failure, the answer is a few clicks away, simply shift the blame to Western values and Islamaphobia holding him back. This bigotry can't be stopped unless it is recognised.

Incidentally, the thread about the shots at Westminster was not a condemnation of Muslim bigotry against the West. This thread right here was started as a condemnation of Western bigotry against Islam. No juxtaposition of the opposite is represented here and, in the spirit of equality, it really needs to be.

The areas that the ICM report covered represent just over half the Muslim population in Britain.

"Slightly more than 50% of British Muslims live in the areas we surveyed"

www.icmunlimited.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Survey-of-Muslims_Sampling-approach.pdf

Incidentally, the thread about the shots at Westminster was not a condemnation of Muslim bigotry against the West.

It was not started as condemnation because at the time nobody knew much about the perpetrator. But you can read the posts there.
I don't think there was the need to start a separate thread to condemn the attacker. Do you feel the need for it? Why?

Sorry, should have read the sentence properly.

Incidentally, the thread about the shots at Westminster was not a condemnation of Muslim bigotry against the West.

This thread is not a condemnation of Western bigotry against Muslims. It's a condemnation of Katie Hopkins.

It's universal to Islam that the Koran is the infallible word of Allah as transmitted to Mohammed. But there is acceptance that the human interpretation of what is said is fallible. So for example the passages on the modesty of women are very ambiguous ones so there is room for various interpretations. There are also various disputes over translations which has led to a lot of disputes over the appropriateness of the types of punishments for particular crimes e.g. Stoning.

But where something is unambiguous in the Koran: homosexuality is a sin and must be punished, it is universal, no room for saying attitudes change, this is based on the mores of 6th century desert dwellers etc, etc, etc

Well I'm afraid that was said! That this was an isolated incident this no action needed. That is what is ridiculous.

Nobody said that no action was needed.

But, would you close ALL faith schools because of this one incident? Why?

I have to say that the bits of the uk that are majority muslim are not good.

They share hardly any brush values.

I don't have any problem with muslim people on the whole, but this needs to stop happening or we will loose our british values.

Whole areas full of veiled women walking 10 steps behind their husband...

I have muslim friends but the idea that we can allow people to live like they are in Saudi while in the uk is ridiculous. I suspect the Muslims I know would agree, but it is a sensitive subject so I doubt I'd broach it.

But where something is unambiguous in the Koran: homosexuality is a sin and must be punished, it is universal, no room for saying attitudes change, this is based on the mores of 6th century desert dwellers etc, etc, etc

So is the bible.

It's still seen as a sin for Catholicism.

What is not OK is to tar all Muslims with this violence.

Do you really believe that decent people think that all Muslims condone terrorism? I believe there is a tiny number of Muslim people in the UK who have been convinced by an extreme version of Islam. Fanatics and fantasists.

No they interviewed a sample of Muslims who lived in an area that was 20% or more Muslim

Says a biased liberal left guardian journalist, who's job it was to discredit the survey.

I would rather trust the unbiased ICM when they say it was representative.

I have to say that the bits of the uk that are majority muslim are not good

I wonder how tolerant certain parts of the UK with certain group mixes are towards LGBT people and British values?

I have muslim friends but the idea that we can allow people to live like they are in Saudi while in the uk is ridiculous.

Really? "Allow"? You want to punish a woman for wearing a veil?

Do you want to punish people for how they choose to live? (note: not if they are forced to live, but how they want to live)

Islam is a spectrum of beliefs.

Can anybody give me a bit more on this please?

Genuinely interested.

Oh, nikel

"I don't have any problem with muslim people on the whole..."

"I have muslim friends..."

For fuck's sake. Why not just say "I'm not racist, but..." and be done with it?

A survey of specific areas of parts of the UK might well reveal a lack of tolerance towards certain groups. And areas that are very tolerant.