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AIBU?

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Katie Hopkins

999 replies

notanothernamechangebabes · 23/03/2017 07:42

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4340290/Truth-t-like-says-KATIE-HOPKINS.html

AIBU to think Katie Hopkins is straying closer and closer to the line that separates legitimate "right wing" politics, and unacceptable "far right" extremism?

I find this article a) utterly incoherent in its argument and b) utterly abhorrent in its content....

Yesterday's attack is deeply deeply saddening- we live in London and we're heartbroken that this has happened again- but I actually find Katie's bile almost as saddening and troubling- as I fear these are views held by many many more people... sure these are just words, and yesterday saw vile, violent actions... but those actions would have begun with words of hate and anger too...

OP posts:
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OoarOoarAyFontyItsMe · 24/03/2017 13:33

What have I said about their followers other than that I think they have been brainwashed.

OoarOoarAyFontyItsMe · 24/03/2017 13:33

Same as all like edl, isis etc. etc etc.

OoarOoarAyFontyItsMe · 24/03/2017 13:34

It is giving racists a platform that causes this.

SaorAlbaGuBrath · 24/03/2017 14:13

Talking mince Grin I love that saying! It's very apropos just now too.

GrommitsEarsHurt · 24/03/2017 14:17

I have gone away, had a cry about my Muslim family and the people killed and injured in London, and am back less angry.

Katie Hopkins' article reads to me as poorly written, and ill thought through. She comes across as a bigot, and was completely wrong to suggest that Sadiq Khan needed any validation. I don't care that his dad is a bus driver, it is irrelevant. Those saying Sadiq Khan is a true Londoner, because he was born here, are both missing the point, and actually being inadvertantly offensive themselves. Where he was born shouldn't make the slightest difference to anything. The section about banning bikinis on the underground was dog whistle politics, completely. However, she has said nothing illegal here, and I will defend to the end her right to spew such bile. And for others to agree with her. That is freedom of speech.

She has occasionally said something that I agree with, albeit things like "it is Saturday", or the time. In this article, the only thing I can find to agree with is that something must be done. I agree that lots is being done already, but I would like the UK to do more.

I would like us to stop entering or starting wars in the ME which are unasked for by their citizens, and which show a concerning amount of Western Imperialism, oil grabbing tendencies, and a woeful failure to plan. I would like radicalisation to be addressed in environments where there are men and women vulnerable to it e.g.in prisons and universities.

I would also like those who have concerns about the extent of Extremist Islam, but who may not use language which is 100% acceptable, to be heard and understood. Many people use the term Muslim terrorists, which could suggest that they think all Muslims are terrorists. But it only takes the briefest of conversations to establish that they mean Islamic Extremists, but haven't used the right terminology. The problem is, if such people are immediately described as being racist, they are unlikely to engage with you further. Language is hugely important, but the intention behind it more so. Failure to enter into dialogue with potential bigots, because pejorative terms have been used prior to intentions being clarified, means that the conversation which may change bigoted opinions cannot happen.

I would love for everyone to accept that if Muslims and their family members think that Islamic Extremists are a sizeable minority in this country, that patronising them by reducing the issue to a "handful" or "tiny minority" does not cut it.

It actually feels racist to have non-Muslims imply that they know better about what is going in in Muslim communities than those living in them do. I have found many of the posts on here hugely patronising on behalf of my family. If you want to know what is causing this rubbish, how about deferring to those who are most likely to know?

To conclude my epic diatribe Blush, many people have a worldview based in an echo chamber, which has not accurately reflected the UK as a whole, for over 10 years. Being a lefties liberal is great but only if our arguments win. Otherwise they are just arguments. The method of calling people racists at the drop of a hat, does not cut it anymore. It patronises those who you seek to protect (who may not feel that the person was being racist). And it hampers discourse.

So insinuating that anyone who can identify with some of what KH wrote, must not have a balanced viewpoint on life in the UK, serves what purpose exactly?

The result is, it offends those whose viewpoints you would seek to change. We are losing votes as a result of this, thereby affecting our ability to bring about real change. it saddens me that the egos of some on the left, with whom I have always identified, can be so strong and self-defeating. This country has changed, and the left had to change with it.

lessworriedaboutthecat · 24/03/2017 14:19

Katie Hopkins is right in so much as there is clearly an issue with Islamic fundamentalism and all the coverage and political reactions are the same as they are after every other atrocity whither in the UK or elsewhere. "not all Muslim's" and "we wont let them divide us " and flags projected on to public buildings.

However its not 2005 anymore people recognise that the mass Islamic immigration of the 60's and 70's was a mistake. The uneconomic factories have closed leaving thousands of people from an alien culture marooned in poverty and surrounded by people they dislike and dislike them. Many of the loopholes like visa's to bring cousins over in arranged marriages or phony colleges have been closed off. The security services are doing an excellent job of preventing terrorism I think something like 13 major terror plots have been foiled in the last couple of years.

Sadiq Khan seems like a nice chap for the son of a bus driver and lets be honest is as much a Muslim (happy or otherwise ) as Obama was Christian. He identifies as Muslim because his family were and because its politically convenient. He can pick up Islamic block voters and liberals keen to show how non racist they are however I doubt very much if he actually believes in god or Allah. He's less a Muslim more a brown atheist.

The 48% who voted to remain in the EU are not frothing No Borders activists the over whelming majority of them are ordinary people who are concerned about their jobs and mortgages. If we could have voted against freedom of movement while still retaining free trade then the leave vote would have been 70% or 80%.

Count2three · 24/03/2017 14:22

Wow, I go for a waxing and return to SNP talk/accusations/racism etc!

I just want to post one more thing and then I shall probably bow out as I'm investing too much time in this. I want to clarify my position, I guess - feel free to skip as you will have heard most of it before.

I feel really angry and powerless but I've not been entirely honest. I hate the terrorist who did this. Goes without saying. But my anger is really reserved for the apologists. I've just read a post suggesting that it's the far right who are to blame for Islamic extremism. No they are not. They don't help but Islamism comes from bad ideas. It is a bad idea to blow yourself up in anticipation of 72 virgins in paradise. It is a bad idea to kill infidels for believing in a different God to you. It is a bad idea to throw gays off buildings. This is what we are dealing with. What will it take for you to realise we need to protect what is sacred in our society. Hopkins is a cunt but I will defend her right to free speech, which is what Islamists seek to destroy. Islamists will not thank you for defending them with your misguided political correctness. They have told us again and again what they want so why do we ignore them and blame elsewhere? Those blaming the DM, BNP etc are partly to blame for their rise because you blindly defend Islamic fascism. The angry, disillusioned, disenfranchised Islamists cannot possibly be expected to control their resentment, no wonder they kill. Bigotry of low expectations.

I used to be an apologist. When I lived in inner city Leicester, I experienced racism and even convinced myself it must be my fault for intruding on their community by going into their shop. Then I realised it is ok to blame bad ideas without holding an entire religion to account. Muslims are not the problem, immigration is not the problem but Islamists are and so are those excusing them.

Disclaimer: i am not accusing all posters who disagree with my position of being apologists, just those who have specifically stated the fault lies elsewhere from the terrorist and ideology.

GrommitsEarsHurt · 24/03/2017 14:23

oh, but you moved onto the SNP. never mind Grin

Lweji · 24/03/2017 14:24

Funny that in my country, in a small town, a man has just gone on a killing spree and killed four people. The country isn't paralysed or gripped with fear.
But if a man who happens to be Muslim kills the same number of people, then it's an international tragedy.

GrommitsEarsHurt · 24/03/2017 14:27

lesaworriedaboutthecat - calling Sadiq Khan a brown atheist and blah blah "for the son of a bus driver". Do you realise that you could seem to be making the assumption that you cannot be a devout Muslim and successful? I don't think that's true. I have a Muslim heart specialist with his own cardiac centre as a family member. That doesn't make him atheist or mean that his father's profession has any bearing.

Applebite · 24/03/2017 14:29

Maybe Lweji, just maybe, that's because of all the propaganda and evil activities from Isis and al Qaeda and boko haram... don't you think that they are operating on a somewhat larger and therefore more dangerous scale?

lessworriedaboutthecat · 24/03/2017 14:33

Grommit the "the son of a bus driver" was a sarcastic reference to Katie Hopkins article. However I suspect if you hooked Sadiq Khan up to a lie detector test and asked him if he genuinely believes that god exists and if so did he speak to Mohammed through the Archangel Gabriel then the answer would be no. Because Sadiq Khan is not an idiot

Imjustapoorboy · 24/03/2017 14:33

less hhmmm you may have outed yourself as an unreconstructed colonialist there

I have no other words regarding your. None are needed

Imjustapoorboy · 24/03/2017 14:33

Your post

lessworriedaboutthecat · 24/03/2017 14:35

In what way am I an unreconstructed colonialist ?

Lweji · 24/03/2017 14:39

Maybe Lweji, just maybe, that's because of all the propaganda and evil activities from Isis and al Qaeda and boko haram... don't you think that they are operating on a somewhat larger and therefore more dangerous scale?

Yes, they are.

But, in London one man killed a few people and injured several. Someone who clearly had his own issues. He doesn't seem to have left a religious or political message. He happened to be Muslim and had a violent past.
Yet, some people claim that the whole country is gripped with fear, it's a significant international event.
Well done in giving power to ISIS. That is my point.

GrommitsEarsHurt · 24/03/2017 14:40

Lweji - oh no, that is awful! Was the man a member of a death cult who has vowed to irradicate all non-believers off the face of the Earth? Have there been nine other arrests in connection with his actions, as he is part of a bigger organisation? Was he one of goodness knows how many sleeper cells across Europe, who all have the same ideology of killing Westerners? Was there nothing you could give him and his many thousands of followers worldwide, other than his own landmass to built his own death cult land upon?

No, well it is not the same! This guy didn't happen to be a Muslim. He was a member of an ISIS cell, many others of whom have been arrested. If a man happens to kill four others and also happens on be a Muslim, his religion means nothing. If he kills the four others because of an Islamic death cult, it means a lot.

I now actually think you are genuinely as goody as Katie Hopkins.

lessworriedaboutthecat · 24/03/2017 14:40

I would say that I'm "Christian" however I don't think there's an old man in a cloud watching the world.

Imjustapoorboy · 24/03/2017 14:42

Reread your post. The mistake that was the mass Islamic migration? No no little brown men and you can not come to the country that has exploited yours for so long

Have you forgotten the Hindus and Sikhs who came as part of the migration or don't they suit this version of a troof? If you look at immigration from colonies then look at the UKs colonialist past. Don't get one without the other. Unless unless they are still just lesser nations

GrommitsEarsHurt · 24/03/2017 14:43

And, perhaps Katie Hopkins excepted, we aren't afraid or gripped with fear. Are you actually in the UK? Your post is very strange.

Imjustapoorboy · 24/03/2017 14:46

Gromit I don't understand why you are so insulted. And also why you have tried the people arrested before they have even been charged. It is known that all adults close to the perpetrator are routinely arrested and integorated. Facts before emotion

OoarOoarAyFontyItsMe · 24/03/2017 14:53

Sadiq Khan is a true Londoner,

I said this. It has fuck all to do with where he was born. It has a lot to do with where he has developed his beliefs though. He is a true gent and a Londoner. The fact he is a muslim doean't make him any less so.

I like him. He is just about the only labour politican I do like.

Why are you insisting he is an athiest that is wierd. He says he is a Muslim. It is I am sure really offensive to sling about ideas that his religion is some sort of political strategy Hmm

GrommitsEarsHurt · 24/03/2017 14:55

I'mjust - who said I was insulted? I think anyone who thinks a member of ISIS did not leave a political message wants their brains testing, frankly. The lone Wolf killers do not have all adults close to them, across four different UK areas arrested. Truly. Arrests are only made due to evidence. You may question someone without arrest, but an arrest means the police believe they have a possible grounds to bring charges in future. Arrests due to being close to a killer are known as false imprisonment. And where did I try those arrested?

Facts before being a smartarse I'm just.

lessworriedaboutthecat · 24/03/2017 14:55

The " unreconstructed colonialist's " are the people who thought it was a good idea to move people from one end of the Empire to another to suit there own economic interests without any regard to what the indigenous population may have thought about it. It was a bad idea in Uganda it was a bad idea here.

Do you think our politicians thought "we've been cruel to the brown people lets make up for it by letting lots of them come here". No they didn't they wanted to create a labour surplus which would lower wages in attempt to compete with textile and steel mills in the far east. The immigrants would come here make their money and then go home and use that money to start businesses in their own countries. However the factories all closed within 10-15 years because you cant lower wages to compete with countries with a vastly lower cost of living people still have to eat and pay their rent. You cant live in Yorkshire on a dollar day.

Lweji · 24/03/2017 14:56

GrommitsEarsHurt

You seem to have trouble understanding my posts. Not the first time on this thread. I'd suggest you read them properly.
You also seem more concerned with insulting people than exchanging views.

Fine.

What I'm saying is that this man who attacked people in London, by all accounts, wasn't really part of sleeper cells or any organised attacks.
It looks more like he went mad and decided to go on a killing rampage. (Honestly, if I was going to attack Westminster I'd have done a lot more damage; he didn't even go for a huge crowd either)

It's us who've linked him with ISIS (and ISIS, who are not stupid and have claimed authorship after the event).

And, yes, I was referring to people like Katie (the topic of this thread) who claim that the country is gripped with fear.

The threat of ISIS is a constant one. People are arrested all the time. It didn't rise because of this man.

And, IMO, linking him automatically with ISIS is giving power to ISIS. He looks more like he is a violent man with violent and murderous instincts who has found an excuse to exert that violence.

And, no I'm not living now in the UK. I thought that was clear. :)

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