Katie Hopkins

[notanothernamechangebabes]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4340290/Truth-t-like-says-KATIE-HOPKINS.html

AIBU to think Katie Hopkins is straying closer and closer to the line that separates legitimate "right wing" politics, and unacceptable "far right" extremism?

I find this article a) utterly incoherent in its argument and b) utterly abhorrent in its content....

Yesterday's attack is deeply deeply saddening- we live in London and we're heartbroken that this has happened again- but I actually find Katie's bile almost as saddening and troubling- as I fear these are views held by many many more people... sure these are just words, and yesterday saw vile, violent actions... but those actions would have begun with words of hate and anger too...

"Although the UK, especially London, may be a lost cause already."

No. Look at the bravery of those on the scene, and the solidarity shown by so many across this country. You may think we are "a lost cause".
I believe in this country, and unlike you I believe that the majority of it's inhabitants are not filled with hate.

yes islam has been around for centuries and been murderous from the start mohammed himself In the space of a single decade he fought eight major battles, led eighteen raids, and planned another thirty-eight military operations and then there was the islamic invasion of india from the 12th century killing 400 million people so its not really a new thing is it

The presenter made a valid point about the fact that no one apart from the attendees and preachers actually know what is being preached in British mosques, eg hate incitation, jihad etc. I agree with him.

Yeah, like MI6 isn't all over that one like flies on shit.

callii what generally happens after these attacks is a spokesperson for a mosque normally comes out and reassures the British public re hate crime preaching etc.

But how on earth do we know what happens there?

I think more and more we should be like France and be a secular country.

If it's true that there really is a "silent majority" in the UK, then this country has a lot of people lacking in compassion, and that's what's wrong with our society, not multiculturalism. If they're silent, it's because they know that what they think is too socially unacceptable to be said out loud. I'm happy for those people to keep schtum about their vile opinions.

I don't want to give the person who wrote this article the dignity of a name. She deserves to be denied the oxygen of recognition.

You'll note that the writer of the article, and others like them (Farage, for example) share the same views as far-right bigots like Britain First and the BNP. To me, there is no difference.

You'll also note that at no point is any thought given to the victims. They're the ones who deserve remembering. Not the writer of the article - a professional arsehole who posts loathsome opinions for money.

Given the state of UK prisons, had this guy survived being shot, he would have been welcomed and treated like a hero:

Article from the Standard May last year:

"Soon after I arrived in Belmarsh in 2014, news came through that Mosul in Iraq had fallen to Islamic State and the prison erupted. There were chants of “Allahu Akbar”, wild banging on the doors and joyous shouting of “we are going to take over” throughout the wing. It was like a big party that went on unchecked for several hours.
..
We had around 200 people on our wing, about half of them Muslim, but there was a hard core of 20 “brothers” in for terrorism or terror-related of-fences who were very popular and had enormous influence.

They were treated like celebrities by the other inmates and included the guy who in 2007 tried to blow up Glasgow airport.

www.standard.co.uk/news/london/the-jihadi-training-camp-right-in-the-heart-of-london-a3249941.html

And we don't have an open door policy. There have been major reforms on non-EU migration in the last 6 years which have closed our doors considerably, particularly concerning the riskier types of migration.

I suspect that many of those banging on about immigration being to blame know full well that the attacker was British born.

What they really mean - although they skirt around saying it - is that they don't want anyone from certain ethnicities in this country. They don't want to just stop immigration - they want second, third, fourth generation immigrants to "go back home", or in the very least to give up their religion.

BillSykes in the news someone admitted MI5 etc needed more resources to research terrorism etc.

I personally don't think mosques are policed as well as they should be. I have no idea mind you. I live in London area and sometimes pass Whitechapel East London Mosque etc, more mosques have sprung up in various parts of London over the past 10 years.

squishy we don't want people to give up their religion but the more extremists views being preached aren't welcome. What about sharia law too which isn't even legal under UK law?

Nobody apart from twats like Hopkins is saying "blame the community". But if the communities made it absolutely clear that those views are wrong, if those disaffected young men heard that said by people they respect, it might help. Something has to compete with what they see online: the coolest, baddest gang in the world. Mostly that competition has to be friends, relatives and respected members of the community.

And if those outside the community were more tolerant and outspoken about the importance of tolerance, there might not be such a divide in the first place. Much harder to see people as "others" and targets if you don't feel separate from them in the first place.

A friend of mine did a degree at a certain university in London recently. She said the conversations in the common room would turn your stomach - young mostly British men openly saying that westerners were scum and deserved everything they got, laughing about terrorist acts online, etc. These views need to be changed!

It's missing a trick to say that it's just down to mental health, poor muslims get blamed when white people don't. Because there is so much out there now to incite hatred in the name of Islam. Of course it's evil toxic garbage that has fuck all to do with Islam. Of course the huge majority know that. But some don't, and they get sucked in by it Hence the attacks. Which will keep happening unless something changes.

Does multiculturalism work?

Is there any example from history when it has?

Are humans innately fearful of difference and fundamentally prone to hatred?

Nobody apart from twats like Hopkins is saying "blame the community".

So, what are the people here saying they agree with her saying, if not the same as her?

So how does KH propose we stop it then?

She doesn't. She said it's too late basically.

The quotes, candles and sound bytes are lovely and people do like to unite, and should, but it won't change anything. This attacker was born and bred here, he was a westerner, whether he believed that or not.

I listened to an interview on LBC last night. A witness called in. He was on one of the buses. You could not ever say this man was not distraught, frightened and will forever be haunted by what he witnessed. People will go about their business today but anyone who says the terrorists will not win is a fool. Tell that to the victims, their families, the witnesses and their families, the divides between folk that are widening even more now.

The answer?

Absolutely no idea.

I've spent the morning in the company of a number of Muslims - British born and asylum seeking - they are all saddened and horrified by yesterday's events

I wonder how many people actually know and communicate with actual Muslim people on a daily basis rather than just reciting what the right wing press says

But some don't, and they get sucked in by it sad Hence the attacks. Which will keep happening unless something changes.

Yes, as some white men get sucked by white extremism.

and of course your not allowed to criticise islam its the only ideology your not allowed to criticise because then your Islamophobic which is bad because your not allowed to criticise them becauseit hurts muslims feelings but of course they call you islamaphobic not mulsimaphobic wierd of it really was about muslims youd call it muslimaphobic surely but the left dont do logic

Applebite yes exactly re those views...

I worked with young Muslim men in my last job, they couldn't of course view some of their more extreme views but had certain views relating their future wives which of course are fine.

What's worrying for me, when I worked near brick lane mosque, yes, women not only white wore western clothes, shorter skirts, one friend of mine who is Iraqi wore summer dresses. Did the Muslims going to the mosque really judge and hate us because of what we wore and because sometimes of how we behaved? Yes, the odd wild drinking sessions in local bars.

Interesting also to note in commercial road brick lane area how there are lots of prostitiutes, I wonder how many Muslim men (as well as other cultures) use them?

I doubt it's a case of sending someone to each mosque though. I imagine it's the higher risk ones, probably by listening devices which are monitored electronically to pick up concerning things which can then be escalated. So there might be more resources needed, but I don't think the situation is as bad as 'not knowing what's going on in there'.

Having said that I am really glad we don't have a liberal government because I imagine they would be so busy tying themselves up in knots about not being racist by monitoring things like that they wouldn't know what was going on at all.

ghostys I actually worked with young British Muslims. We talked on these matters.

Some of them, yes they're totally against attacks etc. but also some of them, how do you know their true views, away from your company? You don't.

Yes 1.6million people 'like' Britain first on FB - pretty extreme organisation

and of course your not allowed to criticise islam its the only ideology your not allowed to criticise because then your Islamophobic which is bad because your not allowed to criticise them becauseit hurts muslims feelings but of course they call you islamaphobic not mulsimaphobic wierd of it really was about muslims youd call it muslimaphobic surely but the left dont do logic

And the right don't do basic reading and writing, by the looks of things.

"What about sharia law too which isn't even legal under UK law?"
Well, if it isn't legal here then it's not legal here is it? What's your point?

"But if the communities made it absolutely clear that those views are wrong"
Like this?
www.launchgood.com/project/muslims_united_for_london#/

Launched while the BNP, Hopkins et al were still gleefully working out how best to use the tragedy for their own ends.

Or this statement:
www.mcb.org.uk/westminster-attack/

Or the huge Muslims against ISIS marches which have taken place in the past, but which weren't reported on much because bad news sells papers faster?

No but I tend to believe what people tell me - I don't disbelieve people just because of their beliefs or religion

It's not fair to suggest Katie H does not think of the victims. Her article says "Now I feel only sadness, overwhelming sadness."

Thankfully we live in a UK where we can criticism all religions and the views of atheists. Long may that continue.