To think DS's school don't understand discipline?

[mumonashoestring]

DS is 5 and I will freely admit can be a ratbag if overtired or coming down with something BUT at home he understands that he does as he's told or there are consequences (time out, loss of TV or tablet time, loss of a treat for example). Recently DH has been called a couple of times to pick DS up during the school day and bring him home early because he's been slapping or kicking, or running away from staff.

After a couple of incidents of either being told about this behaviour at home time or being asked to pick him up, we were properly clear with him at home that hitting is unacceptable, you need to do as the teachers ask etc. and he had a couple of evenings of no cartoons, no story at bedtime etc. However, talking to him about why he's been so naughty at school he says he's confused - and why? Turns out he's being told that he can't hit, but another child in the class is hitting him and not being disciplined for it - DH checked with one of the teaching assistants and they don't use the word naughty, or unacceptable, or actually do anything to provide a consequence for poor behaviour. Literally all they have is a happy sun or a sad cloud, and DS has recently been sent home with DH being told he's been hitting, but having been put in the happy sun during the day My usually happy little boy is quite obviously worried after the last couple of weeks and I'm getting quite cross with the school seemingly having no policy on discipline but expecting the parents to be able to magically convince kids to do as we say, not as the teachers allow them to do...

Yes keeping him home for 2 days then not even including the SENCO in the meeting is .

I know some posters love to assume that schools are always in the right but a lot of this (communication, denial/ avoidance of SN children) is reminding me of how dd's school was before it got placed into special measures.

I remain unimpressed. The only reason we've managed to get the appointment is that on talking to my parents about the whole thing and mentioning the Deputy Head's name, it turns out (without outing either) my parents have a connection with her - DM ambushed her

We have a referral to Comm Paeds but the appointment will be in May at the earliest.

What is it about your DS at school that this school is hiding from you??

If they have suggested you keep him home for two days - legal issues aside - there must be some pretty severe behavioural issues going on here!

This sounds like shambolic parent managements and very reactive practices at the school.

And that's coming from a teacher.

If they have suggested you keep him home for two days - legal issues aside - there must be some pretty severe behavioural issues going on here!

It appears they simply don't know what to do with him. Basically he's hit other children a couple of times, hit a teacher once (open handed slap on the arm whilst being led to the room they use as a cooling off zone for kids who are wound up/have sensory issues). He's at least two year groups ahead of where he 'should' be in terms of literacy and maths so he's bored in lessons - he's reading his own bedtime stories at home, they're learning 'challenging' words like 'one' and 'once' at school. He can do number workbooks designed for year 2 children with no real effort.

He's worked out how to use the door release on the sensory room and knows that if he runs out of there, he can run straight out of the school - he's tried that once and the TA who was with him had to restrain him. He's been able to open our front door at home for a year and has never run off; never runs off in public either.

On school nights, he's stressed to the point of refusing dinner, can't settle in bed, has started complaining of being scared of the dark, the repetitive behaviours that we're used to become obsessive... Tell him it's Friday night and he eats all of his dinner, goes to bed without fuss and gets up the next morning cheerful and ready to draw, read, help with the laundry or the gardening, come shopping with me...

I know you can't make direct comparisons, but I've heard some very discouraging things from other parents who have had children at the same school with SEN or behavioural issues. It's not encouraging as some more or less mirror what we're experiencing with DS.

I've asked for a further meeting with the teacher, DH and SENCO present and am going to be seeking advice from the local authority's SEN team as they simply keep saying 'he's not coping with the environment' but can't seem to offer any kind of suggestions or solutions (apart from sending him home, which we're being very strongly discouraged from 'making official' because of all the paperwork ). We're seriously considering joining some local groups and home schooling.

I don't have time to give a comprehension answer, but get him referred for assessment and do not let them send him home 'unofficially'. It's not legal for them to just keep sending him home for , but what if also be doing is seeing what other school options there are. This won't improve with time, they're not taking the proper steps to manage the situation. My son has autism, no behaviour issues as such, but the lack of self-control, being academically advanced, and working out locks etc are very familiar.

Sorry for crazy typos

It appears they simply don't know what to do with him. Basically he's hit other children a couple of times, hit a teacher once (open handed slap on the arm whilst being led to the room they use as a cooling off zone for kids who are wound up/have sensory issues). He's at least two year groups ahead of where he 'should' be in terms of literacy and maths so he's bored in lessons

Of course they don't know how to deal with him, you're child is hitting other pupils and members of staff because as you state, he's 'bored'. Boredom is not an excuse for behaviour of this kind and I'm sure the parents of the other children in the class would agree. Ask for standardised testing/scores to help ascertain his ability levels and this will indicate if another educational setting would be more beneficial for him.

I'm sure the school will jump to help with assessment We've had to wring everything else out of them, I expect that to be no different.

FWIW I'm not happy about this - a lot of you seem to be assuming I'm treating DS as a precious little snowflake and don't give two shits about the other kids in his class. I'm losing sleep over this. And I'm genuinely at a loss to know how to handle it if the school, with all the training and resources they have, can't suggest anything but 'please take him away'

I'm sure the school will jump to help with assessment We've had to wring everything else out of them, I expect that to be no different.

FWIW I'm not happy about this - a lot of you seem to be assuming I'm treating DS as a precious little snowflake and don't give two shits about the other kids in his class. I'm losing sleep over this. And I'm genuinely at a loss to know how to handle it if the school, with all the training and resources they have, can't suggest anything but 'please take him away'

I hate that special snowflake term. Of COURSE your child is precious to you and you want to help him. Your story is very sad and troubling.

That school cannot cope with him and he is exhibiting extreme behaviours which you don't see at home (obviously you have routines and 1 to 1 care there).
It sounds like a change of school or, indeed, home schooling, if you feel that is right and appropriate for your family should be routes to explore asap.

I hate that special snowflake term. Of COURSE your child is precious to you and you want to help him. Your story is very sad and troubling.

That school cannot cope with him and he is exhibiting extreme behaviours which you don't see at home (obviously you have routines and 1 to 1 care there).
It sounds like a change of school or, indeed, home schooling, if you feel that is right and appropriate for your family should be routes to explore asap.

'he's not coping with the environment

They've stated that he isn't coping in a mainstream school environment. You said yourself that he is a different child at home and in a 1-1 environment so that makes sense.

They obviously have concerns so work with them to find the best answer for your child.

They want rid of him OP. That's the tactic that used to be used by dd's school before it went into SM at the first sniff of SN.

There is some frightening judgment on this thread, yes his behaviour is an issue but you aren't in denial of that as far as I can see.

They've stated that he isn't coping in a mainstream school environment

No that isn't what they've said at all, you have changed the sentence. Plus they cannot be trusted, the OP thought all was well till last week and they didn't even have the SENCO available for the meeting ...!

I'd try and move him OP, if at all possible. If not you will have to try and work with them as the poster above suggests.

I know you can't make direct comparisons, but I've heard some very discouraging things from other parents who have had children at the same school with SEN or behavioural issues. It's not encouraging as some more or less mirror what we're experiencing with DS.

Oh you can

I would also try posting on the SN boards, people will be far more supportive than on aibu.

Agreed : you got some response you found hurtful because you posted in AIBU and I'm not sure your thread title represents your real concerns

Seek some more thoughtful and expert guidance.

Sorry if this is the 97th post to say so, but where is the problem in saying naughty, not allowed, wrong behaviour, stop that now?! Boundaries have to be set; better now than later. No wonder secondary schools are undisciplined. Have not RTFT.

Have not RTFT.

Well that's pretty bleeding obvious

Increasingly

Read the first 25-30 posts, before OP returned. That was when the disclosures began. It does sound much more complex than first read, plus the distraction of the US experience and practices. Not intending to sound dismissive, really. But I stand by my conviction that boundaries need to be set and enforced from day one; otherwise school is pointless and education impossible.

Sorry if this is the 97th post to say so, but where is the problem in saying naughty, not allowed, wrong behaviour, stop that now?!

Can't answer for other schools but apparently some parents have complained when these terms are used and feel it's not constructive enough.

I know I am old, but when I was little, words like that were normal. Know what, we all understood when we were being told off, and with very few exceptions, we understood why too. There were exceptions; we made allowances.

Can't answer for other schools but apparently some parents have complained when these terms are used and feel it's not constructive enough.

And equally some parents feel that school isn't strict enough these days. My older daughter at the start of year 1 (who is fairly perfect at school generally) was crawling around the floor and pretending to be a cat at carpet time. I read her the riot and she stopped with immediate effect. The teacher hadn't told her off or really done anything about it. I was and still am over it, as the teacher concerned is truly outstanding and she had a really good year.

There is a massive difference between a child not coping in the school environment and a school environment not coping with the child.

But anyway. They can't just say he's not coping...they have to do something about it even if that means starting the process for an EHCP that will get him the support that he needs. It absolutely is not on for them to shrug and not know what to do. Teaching advisory Service? Educational Psychologist? Early Help? Behavioural support Team? Yes it takes time, yes there is a shocking amount of paperwork, yes it will require money that they don't want to spend. None of which is your Problem!

I repeat. They cannot ask you to take him home. It is an official exclusion or it is an illegal exclusion. They don't want to do the paperwork because they would now have to justify not following procedure. You should have the paperwork already. If they try to send him home again ask if it is an official exclusion, if they waffle decline to fetch him.

I'm sorry to say that the opinion of the other parents you spoke to is probably entirely accurate.

You also need to consider how they restrained him and how he was being moved to the sensory room. You should have paperwork for this as well not be getting told ages after the Fact! Seriously OP the worst thing I saw in a primary was a three man lift...and the child could have been left for a supervised cry in the coriddor as well.

Some schools are shit. I'm sorry.

What colours said.