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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think DS's school don't understand discipline?

150 replies

mumonashoestring · 22/03/2017 19:58

DS is 5 and I will freely admit can be a ratbag if overtired or coming down with something BUT at home he understands that he does as he's told or there are consequences (time out, loss of TV or tablet time, loss of a treat for example). Recently DH has been called a couple of times to pick DS up during the school day and bring him home early because he's been slapping or kicking, or running away from staff.

After a couple of incidents of either being told about this behaviour at home time or being asked to pick him up, we were properly clear with him at home that hitting is unacceptable, you need to do as the teachers ask etc. and he had a couple of evenings of no cartoons, no story at bedtime etc. However, talking to him about why he's been so naughty at school he says he's confused - and why? Turns out he's being told that he can't hit, but another child in the class is hitting him and not being disciplined for it - DH checked with one of the teaching assistants and they don't use the word naughty, or unacceptable, or actually do anything to provide a consequence for poor behaviour. Literally all they have is a happy sun or a sad cloud, and DS has recently been sent home with DH being told he's been hitting, but having been put in the happy sun during the day Confused My usually happy little boy is quite obviously worried after the last couple of weeks and I'm getting quite cross with the school seemingly having no policy on discipline but expecting the parents to be able to magically convince kids to do as we say, not as the teachers allow them to do...

OP posts:
kesstrel · 23/03/2017 07:29

In addition to what I said above, each state delegates a great deal of responsibility for both funding and management to individual school districts. These can be entities in their own right, different from political entities like towns or cities.

Spikeyball · 23/03/2017 07:31

Sending children home informally is unlawful. Even if it is done to be 'helpful' it isn't.
Since in this case it is being done without the school having any discussions with the parents, it doesn't seem like they are even trying to be helpful.

Trifleorbust · 23/03/2017 07:33

Increasinglymiddleaged:

I don't doubt that a conversation needs to be had. I simply think the OP would be better served without the attitude that the school 'has to meet his needs'. They have to try. They may well be trying. They may well be failing. But that doesn't mean they are failing him. This could be the only avenue available to them bar exclusion.

Trifleorbust · 23/03/2017 07:34

Spikeyball:

Yep, it's unlawful. But if they do it lawfully that stays on his record and eventually they will be able to exclude him permanently, if their strategies continue to fail to change his behaviour. And that isn't what the OP wants, I assume. They definitely need to communicate better but stomping in and railing at them about their illegal actions won't help.

Increasinglymiddleaged · 23/03/2017 07:36

This could be the only avenue available to them bar exclusion.

Well the first port of call must be to put a plan in place including the parents. Schools don't just go straight to exclusion with a 5 year old who has been in school for nearly 2 terms without his behaviour ever being discussed with his parents formally. If he is that out of control how have they managed up to now?

And his needs do need to be met, somehow. It is incredible what can be done, but sending him home won't achieve anything. He may even enjoy it.

Trifleorbust · 23/03/2017 07:47

Increasinglymiddleaged:

They need to put a plan in place, yes, but his needs only need to be met insofar as they need to follow their behaviour policy and communicate better. If he is a risk to staff and students they will eventually exclude.

MaisyPops · 23/03/2017 07:47

I'd be informing the teacher tomorrow that if he gets hit, he will hit and that if they try to exclude them for it again, you'll be bringing a shit storm to their door!

Now I can see exactly how over the years Ive had handfuls of secondary aged kids tell me 'my mam said if someone starts on me then I just batter them'.

Or when something has happened on the way to/from school and kids report it to us because the rerun is later we get parents telling us its not our place to tell their kid what to do hecause 'if someone else called her/him... if theyre going to give my kid intimidating looks... soandso said they were going to get DC so she/he just got there first'
Those parents are also very quick to tell us that their child was perfectly fine to hit so time in isolation unit was unfair and theyd come in and bring a 'shit storm' to school. How dare schools not accept violence. Hmm

Increasinglymiddleaged · 23/03/2017 07:57

they need to follow their behaviour policy and communicate better.

Well yes exactly this ^^

Increasinglymiddleaged · 23/03/2017 07:58

Plus they need to investigate the OP's suspicion that her son has ASD.

Spikeyball · 23/03/2017 08:11

If it is unlawful then it is unlawful.
They will struggle to justify any exclusion when they have a history of sending a child home with no discussion with the parents.
I wonder what paperwork they have on the events that have happened.

Trifleorbust · 23/03/2017 08:15

Spikeyball:

I don't think they will exclude him now (how could they?). I think they need to work with the OP to try to manage his behaviour, but it would be sensible for the OP to note that his behaviour is currently looking unmanageable, so something significant needs to change to prevent being at risk of a KS1 exclusion, which would be awful for him.

Trifleorbust · 23/03/2017 08:16

Increasinglymiddleaged:

They can support her in investigating her suspicion that her son has ASD. That is a medical issue.

Increasinglymiddleaged · 23/03/2017 08:24

So they need to discuss and support with appropriate referrals

Spikeyball · 23/03/2017 08:27

It's not just a medical issue. If there is a possibility the child has asd then the child may have sen which means the sendcop comes into play.

Trifleorbust · 23/03/2017 08:35

Spikeyball:

What I mean is, teachers can't investigate this on their own. It requires a diagnosis.

Trifleorbust · 23/03/2017 08:35

Increasinglymiddleaged:

Of course.

IvyLeagueUnderTheSea · 23/03/2017 12:47

In my decade of teaching reception I've never yet been hit by a child. Even ones who have behaviour problems.
I don't teach in some lovely middle class leafy suburb, it's an area of high deprivation.
Sorry but, 'they are only little' is absolutely no excuse.

All that said there is no way that the school should be sending your child home informally like this. As much as anything else it tells the child that if he plays up then he can go home.

Want2bSupermum · 23/03/2017 13:16

ivy Totally agree that sending this child home is not going to be sending a clear message that hitting is not ok.

kesstrel We have common core now which is hated by most teachers but it gives every state the same curriculum. It's a very ambitious program, especially in the early years, which is why many school districts are looking at preK3 and 4 programs.

kesstrel · 23/03/2017 13:27

Thanks Supermum, yes I'd forgotten about that!

Coloursthatweremyjoy · 23/03/2017 20:31

Ivyleague - I'm in a preschool so 3 and 4 year olds, most over 4. I just moved to this nice leafy place last September. I have been hit, kicked, scratched and bitten...today...I'm not even kidding. It's not just me either...I have been hurt more by the children here in the last five months than I have been in the last five years.

It sucks and they should be learning to control themselves by now...if they could they would but they can't so they don't see?

noelle85 · 23/03/2017 20:46

Having been the teacher who's had to deal with a primary school pupil hitting and throwing things at her today I can tell you it's tough going. I only wish my school would send the pupil in my class home.

Original poster
mumonashoestring · 24/03/2017 12:06

"I only wish my school would send the pupil in my class home"

Thanks for your input. Shall we just stop sending DS to school then? I have to admit it's tempting because, at the school's suggestion, we've kept DS at home for the last 2 days and he's been quiet, calm, helpful and perfectly able to concentrate on reading, maths etc.

Quick update with thanks to those who've offered helpful advice, we have an appointment to discuss things with the school (Deputy Head and class teacher, Senco can't attend b/c her hours don't fit with when the others are available).

OP posts:
lelygirl · 24/03/2017 13:08

The school would not be sending him home without valid reason and hopefully you'll get to the bottom of that at your meeting. They have a legal obligation to protect all members of staff and pupils in their care, educationally and physically.

Coloursthatweremyjoy · 25/03/2017 09:00

Hang on. They suggested you keep him at home for two Days?

That is Appalling! Don't get me started on the SENCOs hours not fitting. I would be spitting Teeth!

You need to go to this meeting and ask for the relevant paperwork for the exclusion. They won't have any but on the off chance they do say that you are concerned that they didn't have grounds to exclude and that you will be talking to the LA.

Tell them that they are excluding illegally and it needs to stop. Go armed with IPSEA advice. Also I would be addressing their lack of communication with you and raise the fact that something is clearly going wrong because his behaviour is so different at home.

Yes they have an obligation to protect pupils and staff but they also have an obligation to give your son an education.

Coloursthatweremyjoy · 25/03/2017 09:04

Plus. Be very careful. The SENCOs non attendance is telling you that they don't believe he has any additional needs.

They can't just suggest you keep him at home for two Days Ffs. Who do they think they Are?

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