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I am Spartacus

310 replies

disfasia · 21/03/2017 22:15

I am posting this here since "Am I being unreasonable?" is only a phrase that a female would ask herself. Women are socialised to concede to men, to institutional pressures, and to ask "Am I being unreasonable?" I am posting here because I know I am not. And this is my protest to MNHQ for censoring women's language, for telling us that the only way to refer to a man who lays claim to be a woman is to call him "she", to call him a "woman." But he is not a woman.

In the past ten days, three different transwomen have been sentenced to prison or arrested for rape or murder of women. Just today a rapist of two children was transferred to a female prison. These are men who commit these crimes and the whitewashing of history and the pressuring of women by MNHQ to say "she", deleting comments when we respectfully disagree and point out scientific evidence, as clear in science as the earth's rotation around the sun. And I am sick of it.

I am sick of the harassment of women who say, "No" to male violence. And make no mistake MNHQ, what you are doing to women on this matter is pure unadulterated violence. You worry more about the feelings of males than women who have, statistically speaking, been victimised by male violence.

If you expect women to come to this website and generate movement for you, you need to understand that in a week where Ian Huntley wants to become a woman, where Jessica Winfield (AKA Martin Ponting) another rapist is housed with women, where Texas is facing a lawsuit from three different prisoners who have been subjected to rape at the hands of another trans prisoner, and the recent sentencing of Kayleigh Woods for the murder of Bethany Hill, her really need to understand that women know the difference between a man and a woman. No, we don't need men telling us to address them as a woman. Nor should MNHQ bei so inclined. This is an open-debate and trans "identity" is up for debate because it is a feeling, not a reality. You cannot oblige women to see the world in a delusory way simply because that individual is delusional or confirmed in his "belief."

MN needs to be a space where women are free to interact honestly, where biology is not written off as unimportant. Rape is very much connected to the biology of males. MNHQ needs to allow for women to set their own boundaries in their own language. We should not be coerced or pressured in any way to goose step with delusional ideologies where the body is irrelevant. This is Mumsnet which exists precisely because the body IS relevant.

This is a revolution.

OP posts:
Beachcomber · 22/03/2017 11:10

4) "Research shows that transwomen suffer the same level of misogyny after they transition as biological women"

Is anyone else snorting at this? Like anyone ever has recognised levels of misogyny experienced by women, let alone attempted to measure them!!

What a ridiculous thing to claim.

KateMumsnet · 22/03/2017 11:10

Alas no, Beyond Grin.

MorrisZapp · 22/03/2017 11:12

I'm still and always will be Spartacus, but you'll have to do without me for the foreseeable.

I can't take the peak trans stress as well as the Indyref 2 stress.

So I'm off to argue about Indyref 2 and will return sporadically to peak trans. Go well ladies.

scottishdiem · 22/03/2017 11:14

"woman-facing"

[as an example when compared thinking people people black-facing is a bad thing]

Oh. My. Fucking. God.

itsmine · 22/03/2017 11:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Datun · 22/03/2017 11:27

Hand on heart, I had never encountered such blatant, blind misogyny until I started to read about transactivism.

I've was determined to make sure I wasn't just seeing a one sided view, so I've gone out of my way to include pro trans sites and click on the links available.

At best there is discussion about superficial ways and means of passing as a very stereotypical woman and chats about hair and make up. There is never anything about the rights of women, the oppression of women globally, female emancipation, male violence, child rearing, elderly parental care, etc. Neither is there anything about female reproductive issues. In fact women as a group are startling absent.

Other than hair and make up and advice on gender dysphoria, the rest could be lifted straight from the MRA handbook. It is frightening and grim. The hate and sexual obsession is vile. And it is these people who are changing the laws. For them. All of them.

VestalVirgin · 22/03/2017 11:31

Is anyone else snorting at this? Like anyone ever has recognised levels of misogyny experienced by women, let alone attempted to measure them!!

Well, the general opinion of males is that misogyny doesn't exist and women only imagine it.

So, the fact that transwomen experience zero misogyny fits with that!

Not only are transwomen the perfect male ideal of what a woman should look (and smell) like, they are also the perfect male idea of what experiences women should have!

If men didn't need us for reproduction, we boring old actual women would have long been replaced by surgically altered males. They fit so much better with the male idea of what women should be.

Ifitquackslikeaduck · 22/03/2017 11:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BeyondUser24601 · 22/03/2017 12:24

University, sorry if I missed but did you confirm...

So your definition of man is - "a person (whether male or female) who performs societies expected stereotypical behaviour, long associated with being male"?

Beachcomber · 22/03/2017 12:57

A transwoman is an adult male whose gender identity is that of a female and who should be addressed by female pronouns in language.

But we all know that what is written above is incomplete. The rest of the sentence currently goes; and they should be allowed into female spaces, female sports, female prisons, female refuges, female changing rooms, female colleges, female quotas, female crime statistics, etc. They should be allowed to define women as "non men" and MTTs as women because men's social constructions and ideologies take precedent over women's material reality, over femaleness and over girls' and women's humanity.

Pronouns are only the beginning.

BeyondUser24601 · 22/03/2017 13:00

And that's without starting on the "cis" slur...

Universitychallenging · 22/03/2017 13:01

i didn't say that Beach.

And I never used the word cis

YetAnotherSpartacus · 22/03/2017 13:02

I was born a woman and I was assigned a social status on the basis of my genatalia. This social status was below that of men. I have lived some five decades on this planet in the shadow of men and men's violence.

I am woman. I am Spartacus and I know what I think if an individual has a penis.

MisDescamisados · 22/03/2017 13:08

@disfasia

So much this .
Biology. The biological reality of womanhood is why this space exists .

It's called MumsNet for a reason.

Be nice if this was remembered.

Beachcomber · 22/03/2017 13:13

No, Universitychallenging, you failed to say it.

Is yours that common hypocritical position that MTTs are "she" when it suits you but not when it doesn't?

BeyondUser24601 · 22/03/2017 13:41

I didn't say you said it, university - I was suggesting it as you didn't say it. So do you agree or do you have a different idea of a definition?

And no one said you said anything to do with cis?

BeyondUser24601 · 22/03/2017 13:41

I was talking to beach, whose post was above mine

disfasia · 22/03/2017 13:59

@Beachcomber ROFL

Re that quote: "Research shows that transwomen suffer the same level of misogyny after they transition as biological women"

Most transwomen don't pass so this is a factually incorrect statement. They do suffer from being gender non-conforming males and that fact itself needs to be taken up by all males--from harassment to physical violence. But I agree that we not pretend that males suffer misogyny.

@MisDescamisados This reason of our biology is precisely why women are pushing back on this craziness. What the trans lobby is attempting to is control women's language around their own bodies by essentially saying, "We are women too" and then chipping away at every single term that womenmothers especiallyhave to refer to their bodies. Menstruation, breastfeeding, and every single somatic act that is related to women is now taboo UNLESS you include males or transmen. Women in the US lost a major Supreme Court battle to take time to breastfeed (a work pause) because-and get ready for thisthe trans lobby which resulted in the SCOTUS saying that it is not sex discrimination for the employer to fire a woman for breast feeding because men can breastfeed too.

So anyone thinking this lobby is not dangerous, think again!

OP posts:
OnionKnight · 22/03/2017 14:03

Where was your apology?

Who said I apologised?

I said...

It was not my intention to mock anybody apart from the transphobes.

And none of my posts were deleted as far as I can tell Smile

Beachcomber · 22/03/2017 14:15

Yeah go you OnionKinght, mocking transphobes by making comments like "She won't be exposed to the dick y'know?" about a woman who has been traumatized by sexual violence.

Hmm
Beachcomber · 22/03/2017 14:21

And no doubt it hasn't occurred to you that many of the women you call transphobes and "fucking bigots" have experienced sexual violence.

Orlandointhewilderness · 22/03/2017 14:23

I am Spartacus.

TalkingintheDark · 22/03/2017 15:23

Always Spartacus.

VestalVirgin · 22/03/2017 15:29

And no doubt it hasn't occurred to you that many of the women you call transphobes and "fucking bigots" have experienced sexual violence.

Oh, actually, I am pretty sure it has occurred to them, they just don't care.

If the feelings of women who were not traumatized by male violence do not matter, then why should the feelings of victims matter?

Considering that most, if not all, misogynists happily engage in victim blaming, a woman who was raped by a male is likely even lower in their hierarchy than a woman who was lucky virtuous enough to not be raped.

minipie · 22/03/2017 15:40

I'm Spartacus.

Women are women.

Men who have had gender reassignment treatment (incl surgery) are transwomen. Ideally we would always use the term transwomen and wouldn't have to call them men or women, though if forced to choose I'd go with men.

Men who are going through the process of reassignment treatment are men who are going through the process of reassignment. They are men.

Men who have no intention of having reassignment treatment, but like to wear traditionally female clothes makeup, are transvestites. They are men.

The same applies to women transitioning to or dressing as men, of course. Though for some reason, the controversy's not about them, is it? I wonder why Hmm

There is no need for transwomen to be seen as "women". None at all. We can have the debate about which loos and prisons they should be in, without having to call them women.

If they get offended that they are not seen as the same as women - that's because they are NOT the same. They have an entirely different biological and social history from someone born as a woman.

If I had lip implants, a perm and took melanin pills, would that make me black?

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