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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

wedding, hen do, transgender

750 replies

user1488971792 · 21/03/2017 17:11

Hi I'm after some advice.
I am getting married and just organising the hen do. Im in a bit of a predicament. My cousin (who is quite a bit older then me not that thats really relevant i suppose) is transgender- male to female. All the family have been very accepting and we would rather see her happy then living a lie and she is aware this is how we feel. This isn't a new thing and we have known about her becoming transgender for 2-3 years now.
now the difficult part!! Im organising a hen do, nothing wild, just an overnight stay, spa that sort of thing. its obviously all women, but i don't know whether to invite cousin or not. If it had of been a night out it wouldnt be an issue as i would have just invited her. However, we are all staying in a house together with a hot tub, she is in a relationship with a women and hasn't had any surgery so still 'male' physically. There will be young girls there who i know won't feel comfortable with a 'man.' i think it would be different if she had had surgery, i don't know why? if i don't invite her it will be awkward and i know she won't want to go on the stag do which i completely understand. I am yet to mention anything about the issue at all as i genuinely don't know what to do and dont want to hurt feelings etc any advice on how to handle this issue sensitively ?

OP posts:
Original poster
user1488971792 · 21/03/2017 18:42

I am not well versed or maybe as knowledgable as i would like to be about transgender issues. The reason why i posted on this forum is so i know how to approach this issue in reality with the least amount of offence or upset possible! Thats all, some of the comments on here seem to think that I'm horrible or trans phobic which couldn't be further from the truth, maybe i just need a better understanding? which is why i asked here to get a broad spectrum of views

OP posts:
LaurieMarlow · 21/03/2017 18:43

Oh fgs, what a lot of drama about nothing.

I've been to hen dos that men were invited to. Hot tubs are not normally sex segregated. If you care about this woman OP, be kind and ignore the hysteria.

Batteriesallgone · 21/03/2017 18:43

Can't agree with you there Trifle. She still has a penis which is likely to become apparent if she gets in the hot tub.

If she can't see why a working penis might be an issue for sexual violence survivors, I repeat that she's a selfish twat.

CustardShoes · 21/03/2017 18:43

Most late-ish transitioned MtF transwomen are pretty recognisable as not biologically female, IME.

So, OP your friends are likely to realise, if they don't know already. And most people are polite about being nice to other guests at events like this.

But if you were hoping for an 'all-girls' sort female bonding & chilling out event, that's likely to be changed by having a socialised-as-masculine transwoman there.

Trifleorbust · 21/03/2017 18:43

MN isn't the place to come for sensible advice on this.

DickToPhone · 21/03/2017 18:44

"MN isn't the place to come for sensible advice on this."

Where would you suggest?

AbsentmindedWoman · 21/03/2017 18:44

Plenty of sour transphobic remarks as usual, I see Hmm

I hate the Mumsnet assumption that you immediately can tell if a woman is trans (bullshit) and also the tired old trope of a "man in frock" - um, no, there are plenty of transwomen presenting as female in jeans and sweaters. Who you read as female when they cross your field of vision in the street, or when you strike up conversation with them, or in fact all of the time unless they specifically tell you they are trans or what they have between their legs.

It's also quite common for a transgender woman to keep her penis, but not use it to penetrate anyone. Hormone therapy changes the sexual mechanics of a penis. And yes you could take Viagra or Cialis but a lot of trans women don't even want to use their penis because they're not thrilled about having a penis in the first place.

therootoftheroot · 21/03/2017 18:45

she isn't female but she is a woman?

wtf??? how does that make any sense whatsoever?

the person concerned has a penis!! women don't have penises! ever!

the person might wear a frock and call themselves daphne and wear a nice avon lipstick but if they have a penis they are not a woman or female!

christ-it's like the emperors new clothes!

SookiesSocks · 21/03/2017 18:45

I think there have been many sensible posts.

Just because they dont say what you think they should does not make them less sensible.

OnionKnight · 21/03/2017 18:45

Oh no, a penis! Run to the hills.

Trifleorbust · 21/03/2017 18:46

Batteriesallgone:

A 'working penis'? So it would be fine if she said she had ED? You are talking crap. There is no reason for her to assume responsibility for (horrible) events experienced by others. She has nothing to be ashamed of and shouldn't have to spend her life worrying constantly about traumatising people with her 'working penis'.

MadMags · 21/03/2017 18:46

Nice, Onion. When OP has explained her friend is a sexual abuse victim.

Trifleorbust · 21/03/2017 18:47

DickToPhone:

For more sensible advice than this shower? The Dog and Duck at kicking out time?

OnionKnight · 21/03/2017 18:48

Nice, Onion. When OP has explained her friend is a sexual abuse victim.

So does this friend avoid all men now?

Universitychallenging · 21/03/2017 18:48

Actually what trifle said too.

Just talk to her and ask her. She may not even want to come. She might be well aware of the fact that her presence might cause an issue for some and never have expected to be invited.

BoboChic · 21/03/2017 18:48

The point of a hen party is for girls who have grown up together to share a single girl moment before one of them moves on to married life.

You do not need to invite to your hen party any girl who you haven't shared your girlhood with.

SukeyTakeItOffAgain · 21/03/2017 18:49

My head is exploding with this thread.

OP I would have a different kind of hen do if you really really want your cousin to be there. But then I am generally aghast at the idea of jumping in a hot tub with people I'm unfamiliar with, male or female.

JigglyTuff · 21/03/2017 18:49

But the cousin hasn't had any surgery and has transitioned late AbsentMindedWoman. So they will look like a man.

LaurieMarlow · 21/03/2017 18:50

THe level of 'exposure' to the penis will be the same as going to the average swimming pool/jacuzzi, so I really don't get the big deal.

MadMags · 21/03/2017 18:50

So does this friend avoid all men now?

How would I know?

I think it's understandable if she's uncomfortable with men she doesn't know, and I don't think that's something to be mocked.

AYankinSpanx · 21/03/2017 18:50

MN isn't the place to come for sensible advice on this

It's literally the only place that I ever read/hear about trans issues at all. I've never heard it even touched upon in the wider world, away from the press.

Where is the place for sensible advice?

Trifleorbust · 21/03/2017 18:51

Universitychallenging:

Sorry, I think you might have misunderstood me. I think the OP should just invite her. She should also explain to her friend that one of the guests is a pre-op transgender woman, so if she doesn't feel comfortable in the hot tub she doesn't have to get in, of course.

VestalVirgin · 21/03/2017 18:51

Nice, Onion. When OP has explained her friend is a sexual abuse victim.

That is exactly why I said OP should not bring the sexual abuse into this.

People who have no empathy for women (without penises) do not have empathy for women (without penises) who have been raped by men (with penises), either.

I hope I have expressed myself clearly enough for everyone to understand. There seems to be a bit of confusion about what a woman is, or isn't.

Trifleorbust · 21/03/2017 18:52

AYankinSpanx:

Literally anywhere else. I would probably ask the advice of a friend.

OnionKnight · 21/03/2017 18:52

*How would I know?

I think it's understandable if she's uncomfortable with men she doesn't know, and I don't think that's something to be mocked.*

She won't be exposed to the dick y'know?

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