wedding, hen do, transgender

[user1488971792]

Hi I'm after some advice.
I am getting married and just organising the hen do. Im in a bit of a predicament. My cousin (who is quite a bit older then me not that thats really relevant i suppose) is transgender- male to female. All the family have been very accepting and we would rather see her happy then living a lie and she is aware this is how we feel. This isn't a new thing and we have known about her becoming transgender for 2-3 years now.
now the difficult part!! Im organising a hen do, nothing wild, just an overnight stay, spa that sort of thing. its obviously all women, but i don't know whether to invite cousin or not. If it had of been a night out it wouldnt be an issue as i would have just invited her. However, we are all staying in a house together with a hot tub, she is in a relationship with a women and hasn't had any surgery so still 'male' physically. There will be young girls there who i know won't feel comfortable with a 'man.' i think it would be different if she had had surgery, i don't know why? if i don't invite her it will be awkward and i know she won't want to go on the stag do which i completely understand. I am yet to mention anything about the issue at all as i genuinely don't know what to do and dont want to hurt feelings etc any advice on how to handle this issue sensitively ?

Actually, that's a fair comment, I wouldn't fancy a hot tub party with a bunch of folks I barely knew, even if they all had a flat smooth plastic area like a Barbie doll in the genital region.

I imagine it would just feel uncomfortably intimate to me (not because of any sex organs) so I'd probably hang out on a chair beside the tub and still join in the craic and conversation. It wouldn't occur to me to feel I was missing out. My boundaries - my choice.

That's exactly it trifle that's what I meant. She should not be expecting the transgender woman to mix cocktails. When I read that bit again it seemed really off to me.

The transgender woman should be asked what she wants to do.

The sex abuse victim can surely share with someone else? And unless they never ever go to the swimming pool ever again, they are going to encounter penises in pools with them. And they can't surely avoid all people who possess penises?

What about a bit of common sense and actually talking to the people involved in stead of posting a rather ill-advised thread here?

Ok Trifle you think having a conversation is a terrible idea. I get it.

It's still what I would do.

I'm curious as to how the conversation changes when a transwoman is around.

Having heard some pretty intimate conversations about all sorts of things with the women who I know and socialise with, I can only imagine some of the stuff women talk about when transwomen aren't around.

THe level of 'exposure' to the penis will be the same as going to the average swimming pool/jacuzzi, so I really don't get the big deal.

Our pool has sessions for women only. Plenty of women choose those sessions and don't go to the open sessions.

Dear OP , it's your hen do. If one of your friends was assaulted and wouldn't be comfortable then don't invite the cousin .
If said cousin is a decent human being they will understand and maybe even back your decision , and if the spa is female only then hopefully they'd understand that too.
If , however , they expect you to change your plans completely and kick off, then they need reminding - as does your family - that it is YOUR hen do , period.
How dare family do this to brides , regardless of circumstance ?

Your cousin is a man. That's OK to be a man. But the reality is that other women (ostensibly your friends) should be at the centre of your mind on this matter. Women should have consent about sharing intimate spaces with anyoneespecially a male. Seriously, you cannot just do this to your female friends. It is invasive and unfair to them. Sorry that your cousin has gender dysphoria but his issues should not cause women to have to worry for their comfort and safety. It is not that your cousin is necessarily a rapistit is putting your friends in a situation where they cannot give consent.

Do a different hen party!

If they have legally transitioned, then they are a woman not a man.

They are male, not female, but legally thy are a woman. And to keep saying "he" and calling them a man is rude and deliberately so.

Surely if they feel like a woman they have to get used to not being pandered to all the time and accept that nobody gives a fuck about their feelings?

Hm, put like this, the most considerate thing to do would be to validate the transwoman by not giving a fuck about their feelings. Transpeople usually like being validated in their gender identity.

Onion you might think it's oh-so-clever to make snide remarks about abuse victims. I don't.

ego the difference is you are friends with and know those women.

If it's a girls only hen do then HE should not be there

The transgender woman should be asked what she wants to do.

Why on earth? It's not HER hen do - it's the OP's. Suddenly we're at the place where the actual woman in question - the hen - is having her choices and wishes subsumed by the choices and wishes of the person who was/is a man. This is exactly why people get worked up about it. In a normal hen do situation, if the bride was having to bow to the wishes of anyone else, everyone would be saying "But it's YOUR hen do!" and telling her to assert herself.

You can't look inside their brain to see what feeling like a woman feels to them no more than they can look into yours to understand what 'feeling like a woman' means to you.

Most women don't 'feel like women'. Most women know they are women because they are female. Nobody has ever clearly explained what feeling like a woman means. I certainly don't feel like a woman - I'm just a female human which means I am one.

Things I talk about with my friends I don't expect men to understand from a woman's perspective:

Sex from a woman's perspective
Broodiness
Biological clock
Horrific periods (a couple of us have them and compare treatment notes)
Miscarriages
Infertility
Shitty effects of contraception
Bloke at works wandering eyes
Mummy's boy husbands

Loads more

That's called body dysmorphia, morning and I feel nothing but sympathy for people who suffer with it.

It's really not uncommon for rape victims to never go swimming in a public pool. Because of the proximity to scantily dressed men, and then the vulnerability in changing rooms. Gyms are also problematic.

I would think this would be obvious.

SHE is a woman.

If you don't want to ask her, then have a chat to the rest of the group - but for goodness sake try talking. Communicating. Sticking a thread on here isn't exactly going to resolve things.

If it's a girls only hen do then HE should not be there

It's like catnip, isn't it.

The OP had not said if the cousin has had facial feminisation surgery, or electrolysis, or how long established on hormone therapy she is though?

The flipside of a statement that all trans women who transition late are recognizable as being trans means accepting a certain degree of prescriptive 'femininity' about how women born with female bodies 'should' look, ie smaller hands or feet or narrower shoulders. Or thinness. Or only being the 'good' kind of fat, ie with an hourglass shape.

Really don't think that helps anyone at all in terms of campaigning for body acceptance for all women.

"A 'working penis'? So it would be fine if she said she had ED? You are talking crap. There is no reason for her to assume responsibility for (horrible) events experienced by others. She has nothing to be ashamed of and shouldn't have to spend her life worrying constantly about traumatising people with her 'working penis'."

Great, so why not invite lots of men? Why not get in hot tubs naked with RANDOM men, even? After all, most of them don't rape anyone, they shouldn't have to spend life worrying about traumatising people. Trauma victims should just grin and bear it for the sake of not making any bepenised individual feel bad about their organ.

Surely the issue with a man being there would be seeing half naked women and feeling attracted to them. Your cousin isn't going to be more attracted to them than a lesbian going which is essentially what your cousin identifies as from what you say. Would you not ask lesbian friends? The difference is a cock and balls. To be honest I don't understand this whole gender segregation thing with hen and stag doos, if I were to abide by that half my friends wouldn't be able to come.
You say you have plenty of time to organise so why not do something that enables you to have everyone you want there without upsetting people close to you.

The op says abuse, not rape specifically, for a start.

Second of all, she's a woman, not a man.

If the abuse victim has problems being around males and only wants to be around females then the cousin doesn't share a room with the abuse victim and they have a Rota for the hot tub and make sure that the cousin and the abuse victim are in different slots.

It's not beyond wit to think of solutions.