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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

wedding, hen do, transgender

750 replies

user1488971792 · 21/03/2017 17:11

Hi I'm after some advice.
I am getting married and just organising the hen do. Im in a bit of a predicament. My cousin (who is quite a bit older then me not that thats really relevant i suppose) is transgender- male to female. All the family have been very accepting and we would rather see her happy then living a lie and she is aware this is how we feel. This isn't a new thing and we have known about her becoming transgender for 2-3 years now.
now the difficult part!! Im organising a hen do, nothing wild, just an overnight stay, spa that sort of thing. its obviously all women, but i don't know whether to invite cousin or not. If it had of been a night out it wouldnt be an issue as i would have just invited her. However, we are all staying in a house together with a hot tub, she is in a relationship with a women and hasn't had any surgery so still 'male' physically. There will be young girls there who i know won't feel comfortable with a 'man.' i think it would be different if she had had surgery, i don't know why? if i don't invite her it will be awkward and i know she won't want to go on the stag do which i completely understand. I am yet to mention anything about the issue at all as i genuinely don't know what to do and dont want to hurt feelings etc any advice on how to handle this issue sensitively ?

OP posts:
StewieGMum · 21/03/2017 18:31

Do you want your cousin there? Or are you worried because you're expected to invite them? How many relatives are coming? Are all your other female cousins going? If not, then you can not invite this cousin and invite friends instead.

It's your hen do. You don't have to have anyone there you don't want. Nor do you have to a hen do you don't want so as to placate people you don't want there.

Universitychallenging · 21/03/2017 18:31

What batteries said

AYankinSpanx · 21/03/2017 18:31

People on mn are such fucking twats when it comes to transgender

I think people on MN try very, very hard to understand and connect with trans issues.

Your statement implies that everyone else out there in the world away from MN are way more tolerant and empathetic, which is simply not true.

At least many MNers are trying to understand the issues which are barely even discussed away from here, in my experience.

TheHouseOfIllRepute · 21/03/2017 18:31

For all those shouting transphobia
Can you then define what makes a woman
And if it's self identification it is meaningless

stitchglitched · 21/03/2017 18:32

Reality is apparently transphobic.

PlayOnWurtz · 21/03/2017 18:32

In fact, you would not make a grain-free wedding cake because one of your friends can't eat grain, would you

My friend sorted her wedding meal so I could eat it (multiple allergies) so actually some do

Batteriesallgone · 21/03/2017 18:32

Trifle I knew someone would think I was being mean, that wasn't how it was meant.

For all we know getting in a hot tub with only other women might be the counsins worst nightmare. She might instantly volunteer the oh I won't want to do that, how about I do instead.

I don't have experience of a trans attendee on a hen do, but I'm not that happy with hottubs for my own reasons. I have a friend with an eating disorder. Another friends hen she organised something similar - big cottage with a hot tub etc. Me and ED friend - panicked about the hot tub. Host - panicked about knowing we'll hate the hot tub. When we all just talked me and friend volunteered to be cocktail mixers / servers to the hot tub people, providers of dry towels etc, it turned out to be a real laugh and not stressful at all.

But solutions can't be found unless everyone talks and respects each other.

Goprogo · 21/03/2017 18:34

I have ducked out of such hen do events as it's my idea of hell 😄 I know that other people like them and I've always seen them as multi-generational events where you can get beauty treatments, massages and where women young and old can talk about intimate stuff - usually boils down to people over-revealing about their sex lives and comparing stretch marks and the battle scars of womanhood. I think of it as a very intimate space and I can't imagine how your cousin would sit comfortably within that space whether they were welcomed or not. I would just be fearful that their presence would dominate proceedings and I don't mean in a patriarchal way but just that a group of women would not be able to stop grilling someone with a penis, who is shagging a woman, who is amongst their number as a woman (especially after a few glasses of fizz as is usually the case at things like this?)it's very awkward for you but like other people have said you've decided on this kind of event and are thinking about your cousin's status as an afterthought - if they were that close I am sure you would have dismissed this spa option without a second thought knowing it would be hugely fraught. Can you do paint balling or go on a pub crawl instead where this will be less of an issue??

GreenTshirt55 · 21/03/2017 18:34

@Universitychallenging

In what way is OP's cousin a woman? Can you share just one way?

Tweedledee3Tweedledum · 21/03/2017 18:35

The only way to handle this sensitively is to invite her. She is woman. End of.

BreezyThursday · 21/03/2017 18:35

I don't understand why stating biological sex is seen as such an insult. The majority of issues surrounding transgender people seem to be around the societal expectations of men vs. women - whereas I don't give a toss what someone (of either sex) wears or what sex their partner is or what they do as a job. It sometimes feels like the people having problems caused by the existence of two sexes are the people perpetuating the unnecessary definitions of what those sexes mean.

In this case, however, a couple of people without penises have a genuine reason to be uncomfortable around someone with one - in a situation that, traditionally, would be penis-free.

DickToPhone · 21/03/2017 18:36

Well according to the law

"Where a full gender recognition certificate is issued to a person, the person’s gender becomes for all purposes the acquired gender (so that, if the acquired gender is the male gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a man and, if it is the female gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a woman)."

That doesn't in any way apply to who you invite on your hen do, it's just what the law says. It gives you various rights but it really doesn't relate to personal relationships, friendships, etc.

E.g., if someone commits a criminal offence then the law says it is forgotten after x years, but that doesn't mean you have to be friends with a criminal.

And the law saying that a man is now a woman doesn't mean you must invite them on your hen do.

Trifleorbust · 21/03/2017 18:37

Batteriesallgone:

She is a grown woman, perfectly capable of saying SHE would prefer not to get in the hot tub, IF that is the case. She doesn't need people suggesting that she MIGHT be more comfortable fucking off out of it waiting on and making the drinks.

GreenTshirt55 · 21/03/2017 18:37

Everyone who is saying this person "is a woman," how??

In what way is the OP's cousin a woman?

Chromosomes?
Because they wear a dress?
Because they want to be a woman?

Because they feel like a woman?

IllMetByMoonlight · 21/03/2017 18:37

Whoa there, Ecclesiastes! Easy... Of course it doesn't make OP a trans exclusionary radical feminist. Not everyone is as well versed in transgender issues as you clearly are, and therefore have every right to ask a sincere question on a forum without having their head bitten off. Name-calling is a nasty silencing tactic.

HalfCarrot · 21/03/2017 18:38

Since your cousin is a woman now, she can share a room or even a bed with your friend with no issues at all. Your friend is the one with the problem and is transphobic if she has an issue.

  • all of Twitter
GreenTshirt55 · 21/03/2017 18:39

Wanting to be something, feeling like something, dressing like something does not make you that something!!

Batteriesallgone · 21/03/2017 18:39

Trifle yes! Which is why my sentence started 'if she says...'

Honestly, please don't take offence if you're not even going to read what I've written.

At no point did I say 'tell her she can only attend with conditions' I just said ^talk to her*.

Trifleorbust · 21/03/2017 18:39

Batteriesallgone:

My point is that no conversation is needed.

IllMetByMoonlight · 21/03/2017 18:39

Ha ha, things have moved on! I didn't realise I wasn't looking at the most recent page of this thread. Honest mistake, I usually always RTFT before commenting.

Universitychallenging · 21/03/2017 18:39

If she has transitioned and done the legal steps required under the current law to be recognised as a woman then she is a woman. That is what her birth certificate will say and that is what she is.

Whether you think she should or shouldn't be allowed to call herself that is a different debate. But legally, if she has done as above, then she legally is a woman.

Trifleorbust · 21/03/2017 18:40

OP, why not just share a room with her yourself?

Pastamancer · 21/03/2017 18:41

Surely if they feel like a woman they have to get used to not being pandered to all the time and accept that nobody gives a fuck about their feelings?

DalaHorse · 21/03/2017 18:41

I would do something that presents
less of a dilemma for you, such as meal and night out, and do the spa for you and 4 close friends maybe.

MadMags · 21/03/2017 18:42

She is woman. End of.

No, he's not. End of.