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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

wedding, hen do, transgender

750 replies

user1488971792 · 21/03/2017 17:11

Hi I'm after some advice.
I am getting married and just organising the hen do. Im in a bit of a predicament. My cousin (who is quite a bit older then me not that thats really relevant i suppose) is transgender- male to female. All the family have been very accepting and we would rather see her happy then living a lie and she is aware this is how we feel. This isn't a new thing and we have known about her becoming transgender for 2-3 years now.
now the difficult part!! Im organising a hen do, nothing wild, just an overnight stay, spa that sort of thing. its obviously all women, but i don't know whether to invite cousin or not. If it had of been a night out it wouldnt be an issue as i would have just invited her. However, we are all staying in a house together with a hot tub, she is in a relationship with a women and hasn't had any surgery so still 'male' physically. There will be young girls there who i know won't feel comfortable with a 'man.' i think it would be different if she had had surgery, i don't know why? if i don't invite her it will be awkward and i know she won't want to go on the stag do which i completely understand. I am yet to mention anything about the issue at all as i genuinely don't know what to do and dont want to hurt feelings etc any advice on how to handle this issue sensitively ?

OP posts:
TheHouseOfIllRepute · 21/03/2017 18:01

I wouldn't invite them
I love female gatherings and the dynamic changes if non female people are there

CaoNiMartacus · 21/03/2017 18:02

"If a man has a major accident that means he no longer has a penis, does this make him not a man? "

No. His XY chromosomes make him a man. A woman's XX chromosomes make her a woman. Nothing else. Not clothing, not identification. Apart from in a very small percentage of intersex conditions, but this doesn't have anything to do with gender.

WombOfOnesOwn · 21/03/2017 18:02

Animal husbandry would be impossible without understanding this. Gelded male animals are still male. They have male bodily requirements and male phenotypes in sexually dimorphic animals.

The idea that human beings can somehow, in spite of the fact that no other mammal can do anything like this, change their entire sex through the modification of specific physical attributes is magical thinking.

Littleballerina · 21/03/2017 18:03

People on mn are such fucking twats when it comes to transgender.

OP, it quite simply comes down to how you see your cousin in this situation. She identifies as female, you say you accept and support that yet you are having a wobbly over whether to invite her to your hen do.

People won't die from sharing a hot tub or room with your cousin.

PeaFaceMcgee · 21/03/2017 18:03

If you don't invite her then at least she'll know how you really feel and can move on from her life, with people who genuinely love her unconditionally.

Trifleorbust · 21/03/2017 18:03

Littleballerina:

^^

Original poster
user1488971792 · 21/03/2017 18:04

Thats sort of it as well thehouse i think not so much for me, but for others they wouldnt feel as comfortable talking about things due to the fact my cousin is there. I don't really want to change the hen do to be honest, but maybe it would be for the best, as i said its more to do with the family fall out if i don't invite her. i didnt know where to ask for a non biased opinion, i haven't meant to cause any upset to anyone or cause any offence, which is exactly why i posted here first before discussing it with my cousin in person.

OP posts:
andintothefire · 21/03/2017 18:05

I think you are perfectly entitled to have a hen do somewhere with a hot tub and with shared accommodation. I also think that it would be kind for you to invite your cousin (and you obviously want to support her and include her in the all-female event).

Sharing the bedrooms is clearly an issue. Can you ask some of your other family members who know your cousin well if they would be willing to share with her? If nobody is willing to share, then I don't really see what you can do other than (a) be honest with your cousin and suggest she books a room elsewhere but joins you for the evening events (which may be difficult and would probably upset her), or (b) book somewhere else with a single bedroom (but would that also upset her because she feels excluded?). I don't think you can simply force somebody to share with your cousin without asking them.

In terms of your other friend, I think it depends on the circumstances and on how fragile she really is. Assuming that it is obvious that your cousin is pre-op transgender (and that your cousin is open about it) then personally I would talk to your friend and let her know that your cousin is coming. She can then make her own decision whether to come or not (or to get a room elsewhere). I don't think you can exclude your cousin just because somebody else is particularly fragile.

I think you are clearly trying to do the right thing for everybody in a difficult situation. Good luck, and I hope you have a wonderful time whatever happens!

JigglyTuff · 21/03/2017 18:05

ThreeLegged - it's the OP's hen night. She can do whatever the hell she wants to do. If that means that the heterosexual man in a dress can't come then that's their problem.

Why should the OP have to change her planned event to accommodate them? Oh that's right! Women need to pander to men at all times in case we hurt their penis-feelings Hmm

ligersaremyfavouriteanimal · 21/03/2017 18:06

Erm, how can a man with a penis be a lesbian?!? Your cousin might "identify" as a woman (sigh) but that doesn't magically make him one.

It's great that you're supportive of your cousin, but I wouldn't fancy coming on the sort of hen do you describe with a man. A meal out etc yes if course, but renting a house and sharing rooms, hot tubs etc, no.

GreenTshirt55 · 21/03/2017 18:06

@dingdongthewitchisdead1

In what way is this person a woman?

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 21/03/2017 18:06

I think its pretty simple, if you really want her there you arrange something she can attend without any drama

ie a meal out/night out

otherwise, have a small do with close friends only and just style it out

MadMags · 21/03/2017 18:06

And again; let the woman miss out for the sake of a man.

Ffs.

midcenturymodern · 21/03/2017 18:07

she will see it like i have excluded her because she's transgender!

You are not excluding her because she is transgender. You are excluding her because she is male. I'm not entirely sure it's necessary in this case. Some MTT people might decide at a female only event where they have been made to feel welcome that they would respect the dynamic and keep their cock and balls under a sarong. Others would get naked and shout 'suck my girl dick' to anyone who objected. You know your cousin so you can make a call but it won't be a female event any more and you may need to adjust your plans and expectations accordingly.

As a PP said, nobody will die by being forced to share a hot tub with a man. It's your party and you can set the bar where you want to. Personally I'd want it higher than 'nobody dies' but we're all different.

Original poster
user1488971792 · 21/03/2017 18:07

i do love my cousin, i really do, its just hard to know what to do for the best, i wouldnt be comfortable going away for a few nights and sharing an apartment with someone with a penis who i don't really know and thats it in a nutshell! nothing else, nothing more than that, and i also have to consider my friend as well just to complicate the situation.

OP posts:
stopfuckingshoutingatme · 21/03/2017 18:07

People on mn are such fucking twats when it comes to transgender

tend to agree there!

Trifleorbust · 21/03/2017 18:08

Okay, OP. Hmm

andintothefire · 21/03/2017 18:08

By the way, I have never been to a hen party where I would have felt uncomfortable talking about things if a man were there. Apart from the issue of sharing a bedroom, I suspect your friends and family members will have much less of an issue than you think.

stitchglitched · 21/03/2017 18:09

What a load of manipulative emotional blackmail PeaFace. It is perfectly possible to love and support someone whilst still recognising things that may impact upon other people.

Why do the women have to compromise or make way? Why must OP have to put her abused friend in a difficult position? All so that one individual can feel validated. Why can't the individual who is male bodied show a bit of compromise and respect that others may not feel comfortable sharing such personal space?

MadMags · 21/03/2017 18:09

Or, you could he be victim of a sexual assault who is uncomfortable around strange men...

Original poster
user1488971792 · 21/03/2017 18:09

Thank you for your kind words intothefire

OP posts:
Splodgeinc · 21/03/2017 18:12

Wow, I wasn't sure if mumsnet was transphobic until now. I'm not totally abord the trans boat and struggle with issues such as trans in elite female sport but this is just wrong, did you think your cousin was going to sexually abuse you before she started transitioning? If not then there shouldn't be an issue. People usually wear their clothes in hot tubs and most at spas etc are mixed sex. If tou know you have a sexual abuse victim and a transperson coming then don't plan a hot tub party, do something in inclusive. One of my bridal party wears. Hijab so we didn't go to a spa. Surely there will be enough rooms so that these two won't need to share? As for worrying about sharing a bathroom have you never stayed in a house or hotel with any men before. We share bathrooms with people of the opposite gender all the time!

andintothefire · 21/03/2017 18:12

Or... what about renting two different slightly smaller apartments? Then you can put family members who are comfortable with your cousin in one, and people who might want separate sleeping accommodation in the other (but everybody still spends the evening together). You wouldn't need to make a big deal of it (or even explain why you have rented two apartments).

TheProblemOfSusan · 21/03/2017 18:12

YABU. If you're having a hen do with family you invite all your female relatives. Whatever the transphobic people here say, your cousin has identified as a woman and you accept that, you have no reason to believe that she might abuse other women at your party, so she should be invited.

I don't think you were unreasonable to ask the question, but mumsnet is not a very trans-friendly place so you've not had very helpful answers.

I do think if you have a concern about how your friend might feel you could sidestep it all by not having the hot tub nonsense. I would be deeply uncomfortable about being scantily clad in front of a bunch of women I didn't know many of on a hen night, whatever their genitalia, and you may find both your cousin and some of your friends feel the same anyway.

Plus presuming it's not yours I couldn't bear the thought of all the shagging and bodily fluids that had been floating around in it. Bleaurgh.

NauticalDisaster · 21/03/2017 18:13

I think you do what makes you happy and comfortable, leaving aside what you think everybody else's feelings/opinions will be.

From reading your posts it doesn't sound like you want your cousin there so don't invite your cousin.