wedding, hen do, transgender

[user1488971792]

Hi I'm after some advice.
I am getting married and just organising the hen do. Im in a bit of a predicament. My cousin (who is quite a bit older then me not that thats really relevant i suppose) is transgender- male to female. All the family have been very accepting and we would rather see her happy then living a lie and she is aware this is how we feel. This isn't a new thing and we have known about her becoming transgender for 2-3 years now.
now the difficult part!! Im organising a hen do, nothing wild, just an overnight stay, spa that sort of thing. its obviously all women, but i don't know whether to invite cousin or not. If it had of been a night out it wouldnt be an issue as i would have just invited her. However, we are all staying in a house together with a hot tub, she is in a relationship with a women and hasn't had any surgery so still 'male' physically. There will be young girls there who i know won't feel comfortable with a 'man.' i think it would be different if she had had surgery, i don't know why? if i don't invite her it will be awkward and i know she won't want to go on the stag do which i completely understand. I am yet to mention anything about the issue at all as i genuinely don't know what to do and dont want to hurt feelings etc any advice on how to handle this issue sensitively ?

I haven't read the whole thread because to be honest I am so surprised at some of the views.
If you do want to invite her, why don't you invite her girlfriend too? surely that would clear up the issues of sharing a room.

Divers, the DSM-5 and WPATH documents don't say what percentage of MTFs have the clinical indicators of autogynephilia. These documents aren't even about empirical studies, but rather about treatment guidelines.

Still looking for a study that contradicts the ones indicated!

Wow. I'll make sure never to get in a hot tub with a man I don't know (or even one that I do) in case he gets a raging hard on. Because, you know, men just can't control themselves, ever.

*If the OP accepts that her cousin identifies as a woman, then why not invite her to a women only event? Why does it matter her cousin still has a penis?

THIS^ Tis all about the penis.

It really isn't mate, it ain't all that. We do not have to share our space with your dick AND as you can see WOMEN are banding together to protect OUR spaces.

I swim I did not say it was prejudice for an abused not to want to be in a hot tub with someone who is transgender.

What I objected to was referring to the ops cousin as a penis.

The language a lot of people are using on this thread is dehumanising. It is not acceptable to talk about any one in that way.

Using the fact that some people have been abused to justify your own prejudices against trans people is a very low blow.

I hope the op manages to have a hen do where both her cousin and her friend are happy.

Trifle

Except it is a female event. Where there is zero expectation of having to deal with the issue of men being there. The female abuse victim has all the rest of the time in mixed spaces to have to make decision about her MH. I think she deserves prioritising by the other women.

I know your opinion is different. You are entitled to it. I don't agree.

Do people really believe a person who has a penis (biologically male) who is in a relationship with a women (female), is a lesbian?

No. And I wouldn't think the woman the transwoman is in a relationship with, was a lesbian either.

Exactly womb, exactly. Because autogynephilia is not a recognised psychiatric disorder.

Grey

bitches. Nice.

Who?

I'm shocked at some of the responses on this thread, i didnt want it to escalate this far, i respect both my cousin and my friend its just a difficult situation all around to consider.

They're using "dehumanizing" language about genitals because it's the only terminology they have LEFT.

They are trying to express that they wouldn't let anyone with a penis into a hot tub with them at a hen do -- not a man, not a transwoman, not a non-binary or genderqueer person with a penis. They don't want to just say "I don't want to get in a hot tub with a transwoman," because it's not about singling out MTFs, it's about people with penises, who now may want to be called any of sixty different genders.

Women have been told (often with death threats and more!) that it is objectionable to be non-inclusive with their language. Leaving out nonbinary or genderqueer people with penises would be offensive.

When all umbrella terms are ruled out as insensitive, the only thing left is to actually frankly discuss the physical trait in question: possession of a male reproductive organ.

User. It really isn't that hard read my post.

its just a difficult situation all around to consider

I'd just speak to your cousin and mention it. MN can't really help you. The room is not an issue if cousin gets a private room.
Hot tub - that's your choice. Cousin may feel uncomfortable.

This thread is raging!

There are clearly issues being discussed on this thread that will perhaps be irrelevant because as ego says, the cousin may not even be comfortable going to the hen do in the first place!

Op - FFS, talk to your cousin, or have your mum or your aunty or whoever is close to her have a chat and work out what will be best for everyone. Don't create a situation at an event where there will be tension/issues/dramas.

Might be good for a few pp here to pop over to the feminism chat board and take a little time to read through the more nuanced, informed and detailed debates that are currently going on the trans threads.

Misophonia is also not in the DSM, yet people treat it as very real. The committee in charge of paraphilia inclusion on the DSM-5 originally proposed autogynephilia as one of the listed paraphilias, but were opposed POLITICALLY (not with empirical evidence) until the committee gave up on the idea.

Many psychological issues are not listed in the DSM-5. Are they all not real? You are moving the goalposts significantly. I asked for studies about a specific issue. Since you say the autogynephilia theory has been discredited completely, and I say that it has merely been modified to say that MOST, rather than ALL, woman-attracted MTFs are autogynephilic, surely you can come up with evidence based on surveys of MTFs showing that less than half are autogynephilic? This research HAS been conducted by many researchers but I don't think it shows the statistics you'd like it to show.

^ I was deleted for pointing that out. As was the poster for pointing out I was unreasonable for pointing it out. Super injunction central.

I don't get why OP is planning her hen do and wedding, when she's been posting recently about her husband, her (existing) marriage, her pregnancies etc. Can someone explain to me please as I'm genuinely confused confused.

Have you got something against bigamy then, you exclusivist, monogamy-normative bitch??

Doesn't matter what we think - it is your wedding. If you want this person at the hen do then invite them and if needed rejig the plan so that all of your guests are comfortable. Much depends on how conservative you and your friends are.

At the moment it sounds like a no win situation - if you don't invite them there's possible long term family tension, if you do there may be awkwardness at the hen do. So perhaps do something different for you hen do. Can you have a cheap night out your official hen do that everyone goes to and a separate 'just close mates' hot tub thing with no dick?

That was to runcible
OP why are you shocked? This thread went exactly as you planned for it to go.

womb

You seem to be derailing the op's thread by making it about autogynephilia when the op was concerned about what to do about the invite.

This is absolutely insane that a forum for women, for mothers

Actually it's for parents and even, shock horror, thone without DC.