School rewarding 8 yr olds for bad behaviour

[Pugwash2005]

My ds and his friends have been complaining because the 4 'naughty' children in their class have a tea party every Friday afternoon if they get over 12 'smileys' in a week, 2 'good' children are also picked to go along. There was an incident in school with one of the challenging pupils but he was still allowed to the party. Ds & I along with other mums think this party is making other children feel they are not rewarded for their good behaviour along with the fact that even when naughty these 4 kids get rewarded. Your opinions on this would be great

I don't want to come across as being a supporter of poor behaviour, this isn't acceptable. It is however part of a teaching job to follow policies for dealing with behaviour that all schools have and be committed to dealing with individual needs ( even when there are 33 individual needs it feels sometimes) I must say the good work we do is very dependent on working very closely with parents and building good relationships. The most difficult situations to deal with are where the parent won't believe our observations and won't accept that their child's behaviour is an issue. It does take all parties to commit to change, to work together and to be honest with each other, if improvements are to happen.

I do not encourage my dcs to live a life of envy. My kids are loved and have a pretty easy life - the kids at school who disrupt the classroom have a negative effect on the dc's education - an education they are very privileged to have! Any special rewards that lead to less disruption in lessons is a gift to everyone.

Quite disturbing to see the attitudes of some teachers on this issue, makes me thankful my dd is out of mainstream and with staff that actually understand her needs.

It can also go much the other way dd was banned from any school trips as she was a "health and safety risk" and spent at least 3 full days a week in isolation. One teacher actually said "Oh no I don't want (insert DDs name) in my class , what have I done to deserve this" infront of dd, then sent her to work in isolation. She was also told she was a "waste of government funding and an education and would be better off with a babysitter".

The secondary school ds ended up leaving were very focussed on it being "a home behaviour issue". Ds has asd. Because he masked at school, which school actually used these words themselves they saw it as a home issue - they could not connect that it was unmet need in school - yet claimed frequently they had expertise in asd.

They were arrogant fuckwits. Who had their arse handed to them on a plate in the send tribunal.

Firstly these children are not 'naughty' they probably have ADHD or are on the autistic spectrum

How on earth do you know that?? Beyond ridiculous that poor and disruptive behaviour automatically has an SEN attached to it now.

Why is it always, " they may be on the autistic spectrum, or they may have special needs" . Yes they may, but equally they may not. They may be naughty, badly behaved children who will go on to be thugs as teenagers. They do exist you know, despite what some mumsnet terms think

Because all behaviour is a form of communication. What it's communicating is often hard to pin point. But often the "thugs" have MH or attachment issues.

But often the "thugs" have MH or attachment issues

What are you basing this on? Conjecture?

Isn't it a bit bizarre to have a party every week? I understand positive behaviour management but a party?

I hate the labelling of 'good' and 'naughty' children! Behaviour is so much more complex than that, equality is about ensuring everyone has an equal chance to succeed , and support needs to be appropriately in place to support those who for whatever reason find behaving in the way expected in school more challenging

But surely if behaviour is so bad that it impedes their own and the learning of others it is a SEN and needs addressing. FWIW the two most difficult children in my ds's year at school were later diagnosed with ASD but had spent the ten years previously labelled as naughty and bad and some children never receive a diagnosis. I suspect there are very few children who are simply naughty but suspect many have underlying difficulties and needs that are neither diagnosed or met.

.

Desperateforsleepzzzz
How is it disturbing to say that children with additional needs should be supported but not all children who display poor behaviour have special educational needs?

I'll be the first to say that the sheer amount of 'teachers dont know what theyre on about' on MN really gets my back up, which comes through in my posts but I'm absolutely fed up with keyboard warriors often with no experience of education thinking that they can ridicule an entire profession.

Ive spent years supporting parents get resources and support for their children, ive sat on the phone for hours to parents in tears. Ive helped kids involed with the police, kids with send needs, very able children crippled with anxiety from the pressure, dealing with depression and self harm. I've taught at all ends of the ability spectrum, but not as far down as P scales. I go above and beyond for the kids i teach. I get thanked by parents for the support. Most teachers do all this. We dont get paid enough for the crap we put up with and yet when a teacher says one thing that doesn't match the MN collective view they get shouted down with nothing short of contempt.
(But then you see it on threads about drs, nurses and hospitals too. It reminds me of advice given when I started out: the loudest people are the critics because everyone else is quietly supporting you and values thr job you do.)

But surely if behaviour is so bad that it impedes their own and the learning of others it is a SEN and needs addressing

Not necessarily IME. I have dealt with children who have significant behaviour issues linked to a genuine SEN. I have also dealt with children whose behaviour is appalling because parents have never said no, have laid no boundaries and truly believe their kids could do no wrong. It was then up to the school to try and deal with that.

Maisy

You're a teacher?

But I'd imagine if parents hadn't "parented" their children then there would be underlying reasons there too. Education/health/addiction/poverty or something else that had impeded their ability to aid their own children's development.

user0000000001
I am. And i care deeply about all the kids i teach.
It's why I get really frustrated at how quickly people on MN jump straight to sen diagnosis and teachers are useless.

Thankfully, most people who talk on these threads are quite measured and open to discussion.

I think that one of the (many) problems is that the really good teachers who don't make misplaced judgements and assumptions about the parent's ability to parent well are lumped together with those that do make these huge assumptions. Just as the 'naughty' dc can all be placed together irrespective of 'backgrounds', family-life and any medical diagnoses. And again just as the parents are also lumped together - good parents and bad parents, often the default assumption is 'bad parent' if your dc has SN.

Err, my well behaved son isn't rewarded with a happy life and good grades

He's being denied a life in school due to bullying by these 'non naughty' children.

This is like real life. Those who cause problems to others are more likely to get support. Those who are quietly desperate, rarely do.

And bad behavior can also be a result of arrogance.

Maisy

Huh.

The child may have received a different consequence of the behaviour that your child deemed naughty or may not have understood the who issue. Without knowing the child and their situation , the strategy being adopted and only going on your childs limited viewpoint it is difficult.

However I would mention to her teacher that this is the perception coming across and they be able to tweak the process.

PlanIsNoPlan
There are many reasons a kid might display naughty behaviour. Great teachers establish the root cause (which sometimes can be lack of boundaries but there are many reasons). Its always best when there's a dialogue between home and school.
It must be awful having the assumption that SEN is bad parenting.

What I find infuriating is how many people on MN refuse to accept other non send reasons exist.