School rewarding 8 yr olds for bad behaviour

[Pugwash2005]

My ds and his friends have been complaining because the 4 'naughty' children in their class have a tea party every Friday afternoon if they get over 12 'smileys' in a week, 2 'good' children are also picked to go along. There was an incident in school with one of the challenging pupils but he was still allowed to the party. Ds & I along with other mums think this party is making other children feel they are not rewarded for their good behaviour along with the fact that even when naughty these 4 kids get rewarded. Your opinions on this would be great

Dd's TA's, whilst by far the best in that school, sometimes don't seem able to generalise so they know what needs to be done in a certain situation and when it is a tick box situation everything runs smoothly. If something needs a little bit of thought or requires them to have some insight or just to be able to interpret dd's reactions then things are far more likely to hit the skids. I end up sending them instructions but of course dd has been let down first before I know I need to intervene It makes you wonder just how comprehensive the training they receive is really and it is written in dd's statement that they should attend all training as offered so no excuses for lack of training

I think it's hear hear zzzz but wouldn't swear to it. Ds and dd have SM to varying degrees and at different times in their lives. Dd wrote for her contribution to AR that it is the worst and most frightening thing when she can't speak in school because she knows that she can't get help and she is scared that she will be considered to be rude and disrespectful and be in trouble. Ds always wrote notes but dd is just paralysed by fear and can't do that either.

Most primaries are quite big with possibly 100 kids in each year group. Not every child gets to do these things, thats why it would be nice for them to get golden award of the week every so often, so as they know teachers think well of them too. That's why it can be frustrating when all these things go to children who are often naughty.

Different reward schemes have different purposes and they should be run in different ways. A reward scheme for recognising each child's effort and contribution is different from a reward scheme which recognises outstanding achievements which is different again from a reward scheme which motivates behaviour change for the children whose behaviour most needs to change.

As far as we can tell the smileys-and-tea party scheme was about behaviour change - "separate rewards from punishments" and "don't take away an earned reward" are how an effective behaviour-change reward scheme would normally run. "Golden awards" are different - they could be about outstanding achievement or (especially for young children) they could be about recognising everyone which would include the persistently "naughty" kids too though preferably not in a week when they'd been especially badly behaved. But "golden awards" usually aren't the best scheme for behaviour change.

Some schools have advise from LA behaviour specialists on how to manage persistently naughty children (with or without SN) but access may be very limited (especially with funding cuts ) so schools don't always get these schemes right. There are a lot of trade-offs - a teacher might decide that with four disruptive kids in the class it's worth focussing on an effective behaviour-change reward scheme partly for the sake of all the other kids, even if the other kids don't understand why they aren't all getting the rewards. And sometimes there is a lot of making do. Schools don't all have resources for the more intensive monitoring and extra rewards that they would need for a proper behaviour-change reward system so they try to use things they already have like "golden awards" and that's not always a good idea.

The old mainstream school used various weekly certificates for each class, bronze, silver and gold awards, i think they pretty much got awarded to about half the class each week but I'm sure you can guess which kids rarely got any certificates. I'm having a massive clear out this week and in amongst some old toys i found a gold certificate for good lunchtime behaviour, i couldn't help but wonder why it was screwed up and thrown in there and then i noticed the date, it was for a period of time that ds are his lunch alone and went out to play alone (supervised by a TA).

zzzzz i never thought i would post some of the worst stuff but some threads just make you drop the mask, back then i was naïve and didn't know much about the laws involved, i trusted those in authority to act within the law and that's the sort of thing that happened. No child deserves to be illegally excluded because their TA has been taken away from them for the day.

And yes in response to a discussion/debate it is hear hear, as in i hear what you say and agree.

DS sometimes cannot ask for help at school especially when he thinks that he shouldn't need help because he is doing work that is easier than his classmates or when the work has been explained a couple of times and he feels that he should have understood it.

zzzzz it's great to hear that your DD is talking well.

i found a gold certificate for good lunchtime behaviour, i couldn't help but wonder why it was screwed up and thrown in there and then i noticed the date, it was for a period of time that ds are his lunch alone and went out to play alone (supervised by a TA).

Really good news about your dd. Dd's SM started in secondary (when the support she had was dire), the support is much better now but the SM is still there to one extent or another. Dd has some classes she can't speak in unsurprisingly the ones where the teachers are unsympathetic and then she can do French speaking tests unaided because the teacher is an absolute star. Her PE teacher complained to me that she neither spoke or looked at her so I told her that the extent to which dd was able to speak in a lesson was directly proportional to the quality of the teaching in my experience which was just before dd refused to attend the lesson at all.It's now written in her statement that dd does not benefit from attending PE and so doesn't even feature on her timetable.

I know I'm a total numpty sometimes but can someone tell me how to quote someone else on here, I've been on here for a few years now you'd think i would know by now but me and technology are not good together

Mine hates PE too, I'm sure he doesn't do it either unless it's a 1-1 thing like tennis.
Never could understand the rules of football and thinks running after a ball to kick it in a net is the stupidest thing ever to exist.

enterthedragon I copy/paste the text and stick an asterisk at the beginning and at the end, that highlights it in bold. Dunno how to copy/paste on a phone though!

enter sounds like your ds shares exactly my view on football. Ds3 loves to watch football and is a walking encyclopedia on the statistics but he'd never play football. He used to go in the gym and went on the climbing wall a lot but anything involving a team or cooperation he was having none of it.

Ok, you've lost me there, copy and paste! I don't even know how to do that

1nsanity i rather like football at least i can pretend to watch it and avoid pointless discussions about tomb raider, the shadow of mordor or any other game that is a current obsession

It works rather well as tactical manoeuvre

Enter the dragon. Challenging behaviour with NO Sen is just that.....Challenging behaviour. It is often referred to as being naughty. It is not an additional need that they need rewards for. My children have no Sen, nine now, and none hiding to come out at some time in the future. If they are naughty, I do not give them treats.

Mumzy your ignorance is astounding tbh. If a child's behaviour s impacting on his or others' learning then it's an additional need and school will make provision for it because they have to. Continual punishments and reprimands have been shown not to work and so rewards and incentives are usually in place to encourage improvement in behaviour and cooperation and build a child's self esteem because they won't be oblivious to the fact they are viewed as naughty.
I'm very happy for you that your child at 9 has no SEN however it isn't unusual for children to be diagnosed with ASD in their teens in fact entry into secondary is usually a trigger. So the children you describe as naughty may very well later receive some sort of diagnosis of SN.

Insanity.....Nine was meant to read now....Typing error, my child is not nine. My much older child also has no Sen, and when he was naught he was believe it or not , just being naughty. Plenty of teachers have come on this thread saying children who are simply naught should not be rewarded. You should not reward children for being naughty if they will be naughty again!!!!! If your child is naught at home, do you give him a treat?!!!!

So if my non Sen child is naughty at school, I should tell them it is an additional need and they need to make provision for it......Ha ha..Think they will laugh me out of the school. If I ever find out my child has been plain naughty and they give him a treat, I will be up that school as fast as I can to complain.

Dixie dd's SALT input was dire too in fact it was so bad that her report for her statement at three made her the only child with an autism and global development delay diagnosis who had no speech, language or communication difficulties It was so bad the LA refused to use it as an appendix and offered me their support in pressing a complaint We were then allocated the SALT's manager who was only marginally better. Dd's speech and language development was in spite of, rather than because of, SALT input tbh.