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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think the result of this rape trial is disgusting

999 replies

joystir59 · 17/03/2017 20:48

Man gets off completely Scot=free for raping a 12 year old girl, and that this result gives such a wrong message to men, in a world in which girls are never considered too young anyway. I'm enraged!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-39305042

OP posts:
GreenPeppers · 18/03/2017 11:25

I think the girl needs empathy and compassion and support for events previous to this which led or enabled her to be in this situation and want to have sex as a 12 year old. I really feel for anyone who can be so disturbed at such a young age. As for the act itself, there is no suggestion she regrets it so no, I don't have compassion for her as a victim of a crime. i am so shocked by this I have nothing I can say that wouldn't be deleted other than that is a horrifically cruel ignorant attitude to the long term effects on victims of child sexual abuse

YY and actually I would be interested to see if there has been anything put in place in that matter. Counselling for her, SS, support form CAMHS etc... to try and sort out what on earth has happened there.

prh47bridge · 18/03/2017 11:28

Graphista - See my post at 10:56. As someone who is used to reading sentencing remarks I don't see any of the things you see in these remarks. They are perfectly normal sentencing remarks. Indeed, a number of the things you complain about are matters the judge is required to take into account when sentencing. They do not show that the judge disagrees with the law. They show that the judge was doing her job.

HandbagCrab · 18/03/2017 11:29

19 year olds should be aware of the dangers of having unprotected sex with strangers and the risks they take when doing so, 12 year olds not so much.

This girl was failed by everyone that came into contact with her that night. The shop that sold her vodka (so she looked 25 and didn't need ID then supposedly), the police that talked to her (so she came across as 18 on a night out in the city then), then this bloke who wanted to have sex with her so bought that she was 16, took her somewhere she didn't know and had unprotected sex with her, which turns out was rape because she was 12.

I don't see it curtailing women's sexual freedom if someone who says they are 16 to a random doesn't immediately get sex, I see this as giving women sexual freedom. Freedom to experiment with sexuality without it becoming full on unprotected sex within a short time of meeting someone.

She was 12.

KayTee87 · 18/03/2017 11:31

handbag where does it say it was unprotected sex? I might have missed that. Read the news report and the court report.

coconuttella · 18/03/2017 11:34

The only way to be 100% sure that a woman/girl is over the agree of consent is from a form of ID.

But ID can be faked.... it often is!

ErrolTheDragon · 18/03/2017 11:35

where does it say it was unprotected sex

the report I read said the only reason this case came to light was because the girl was worried she might be pregnant and told her sister. So unprotected (or inadequately protected) is implied.

prh47bridge · 18/03/2017 11:36

I would be interested to see if there has been anything put in place in that matter

It is extremely unlikely we will find out. Even though we don't know her name, disclosing this information would violate her privacy. For the same reason judges have to be very careful what they say in sentencing remarks, which is part of the reason Graphista complains about a lack of empathy.

where does it say it was unprotected sex

The offence came to light because the girl told her sister she was worried she might be pregnant. This suggests sex was unprotected.

prh47bridge · 18/03/2017 11:38

But ID can be faked.... it often is

Indeed. If an underage person wants to buy alcohol it is easy enough to get hold of fake ID. If they needed to produce ID before having sex the result in my opinion would be a booming trade in fake IDs.

LuxCoDespondent · 18/03/2017 11:39

I don't have too much of a problem with the outcome of this trial. The girl looked old enough - the police, court and any reasonable observer agree on this - and she lied about her age, so what was the man to think? You can't reasonably expect everyone to challenge their potential sexual partner to produce photo ID - and even if you do, it can be faked.

Also the man hasn't "got off" this charge. The case will stay on his file and will be used as evidence if he commits an offence in future.

Prison should be used to protect the public from danger and to punish an offender. This man clearly isn't a danger to the public, he will be very careful with who he sleeps with in future, and I don't think he should be sent to prison for an honest mistake.

Graphista · 18/03/2017 11:42

Well I know what I think of this judge

Mainly a defence lawyer including the Lockerbie bomber, and Tommy Sheridan, only been a judge 5 years.

Praised a rapist that subjected a woman to a violent week long ordeal, only gave him 6 years.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/uk/415579/Anger-as-rapist-is-praised-by-judge/amp

Apparently abusing underage girls is a 'sexual preference disorder'

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3686236.stm

GreenPeppers · 18/03/2017 11:45

coconut that was my point.
The only way a random person can know for sure what age someone is is with an ID.
But they can be forged and used in a deceiving way.

So we don't and can't have a full proof way to know what age one is.

From that principle, does it mean that no one should ever have a ONS (as you don't know the person and can't be sure of the age)?

Andrewofgg · 18/03/2017 11:46

Graphista when you say Mainly a defence lawyer including the Lockerbie bomber, and Tommy Sheridan are you criticising?

Lawyers are on the cab-rank. They can't refuse cases because they don't like the client.

Trifleorbust · 18/03/2017 11:46

Making it a legal obligation to identify yourself and prove your age before sex is a TERRIBLE idea. It removes the ability of a court to decide whether your belief in their age was 'reasonable' because, hey, they 'proved' it, right?

A get-out-of-jail-free card, they should call it.

coconuttella · 18/03/2017 11:47

And still those determined to be horrified and outraged at the sentence will not provide a coherent answer as to what he should have done beyond some kind of vague "he should have made sure".

Either apply some proper thought to this or stop your hysteria.

Graphista · 18/03/2017 11:47

Path as a 'mere' lay person not a lawyer I still think those comments we're outrageous. I still think he should have been properly sentenced. I find your posts becoming increasingly patronising and condescending.

HandbagCrab · 18/03/2017 11:51

I'm assuming unprotected intercourse as she was worried about pregnancy. But I realise I'm talking about a 12 year old who may not know the full ins and outs of how you get pregnant from sex as she might not have covered it in Y7 biology yet.

puggedoff · 18/03/2017 11:52

This is a parental issue - who lets their 12 yr old daughter out, looking like a 16-20 ur old to a busy city to meet friends, drink vodka and meet men on the street at 4am.

I feel for the bloke - in the above situation would it really enter your head that this girl could be 12????

The parents should be prosecuted for neglect and the girl put somewhere safe and given therapy on how 12 yr olds should think/behave/act ....

As the mother of an 11.5 yr old who sits on minecraft, loves horses, has to be dragged into the shower and has no interest in clothes/makeup/boys this scares the living bejesus out of me

ScarletFever · 18/03/2017 11:53

The only way to be 100% sure that a woman/girl is over the agree of consent is from a form of ID

And boys/men of course?

HandbagCrab · 18/03/2017 11:54

He should have got sentenced as it would be a strong message that '16' year old girls are not appropriate sexual partners for adult men, even when they say they'd like to be.

Instead it's about how devious and adult-looking 12 year old girls are and how adult men need to be protected legally from their lies and deceit.

AssassinatedBeauty · 18/03/2017 11:54

Sod off with the "hysteria" comment. He didn't have to have sex. He knew she was 16 at best, and didn't care or think about the chance she was younger. One night stands don't need to be banned, no one needs to be forced to show id before having sex. Our culture should be shifted to consider that adults are responsible for who they have sex with, and some things are more important that getting a shag, namely protecting children and other vulnerable people. This man wasn't tricked into sex with a child. He chose not to worry or think about the risk he was taking, if you have sex with a total stranger you've only just met.

Graphista · 18/03/2017 11:58

To use 'hysteria' on such a thread is offensive.

I believe he should have left her alone and as he didn't the strict liability aspect should have been applied, the spirit of this law followed which is that a 12 year old CANNOT consent.

The way this poor child has been talked about is shocking.

Boulshired · 18/03/2017 11:59

What was also alarming is the police were looking for another child, the 12 year old was was out with another girl who passed for older as well. This case was deemed a one off with exceptional circumstances but how many other children could have been involved.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 18/03/2017 12:00

Excatly Handbag

As I said before if a boy of 12 had sex with a 19 year old man with the same background story we certainly wouldn't be calling him devious, or claim the adult was raped or innocent

NoWinNoFfi · 18/03/2017 12:00

Graphista - i agree with you re. the judge's comment in the other case, but I don't agree with critizing someone for being a defense lawyer or criticizing her for citing a report to the court, as part of her job and her legal duty, in your second link.

LoginInformation · 18/03/2017 12:01

that is a horrifically cruel ignorant attitude to the long term effects on victims of child sexual abuse

That isn't what I meant. I meant that she deserves empathy and sympathy and help because she shouldn't have been drinking and in a taxi queue at 4 am and shouldn't have the want to have sex at 12 years old.

I don't think she is a victim of child sexual abuse in the sense it is usually used. I don't see her as a rape victim nor him as a rapist.