To think the result of this rape trial is disgusting

[joystir59]

Man gets off completely Scot=free for raping a 12 year old girl, and that this result gives such a wrong message to men, in a world in which girls are never considered too young anyway. I'm enraged!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-39305042

And she did lie. I get she's 12, 12 year olds lie. But like all those other people (including the police) he believed it.

I still do not think he deserves prison and for his name to be out there.

This poor man, who just had to have sex with anyone who was willing. The need to have sex is much more important than checking the person you're having sex with is able to consent...

The absolute discharge apparently means that this won't be on his record and he isn't on the sex offenders register. He has the sympathy of many many people who feel he was the victim of a conniving child. He'll be fine, I'm sure.

Ok let's try another way.

My mil works in Tesco. She was fined for selling a 16 yo cigarettes. She nearly lost her job (true)

Is it her fault or thatvofcthe 16 year old who said she was and looked 18? Which one is responsible?

Yes, legally he is a rapist because he plead guilty. However the judge found him guilty of statutory rape which allows her to discharge the case absolutely. It's essentially like saying "what you did was wrong and you know it, but there was no expectation in your mind that what you were doing is wrong."

It's the difference between this case and the guy who killed someone with one punch. When that guy punched someone, a reasonable person knows that punch has the potential to do serious harm. The guy in this case, based on evidence around him, had no reason to disbelieve what was being told to him. See what I mean? No reasonable person would ever think someone waiting in a taxi queue drunk at 4am was actually 12. Also, the fact he actually asked her age is in his favour because it shows he was actually making an effort to follow the law.

Like I said upthread, it's a sad case because two people have essentially been dragged through the mud over this. I hope they can rebuild their respective lives and carry on.

Would a reasonable person expect a drunk person in a taxi rank to be capable of consent full stop?

If you're using that as an excuse.

I hope he will be fine. I hope he thinks twice next time he goes out on the lash, like most boys and girls of that age do and never has another one night stand again! I hope none of your sons are stupid enough to not check ID before picking up a girl on a night out. I also hope the girl gets the support she clearly needs.

If tesco customer looked 18 she should have asked for ID under the Think 25 policy. Last I looked that does not apply to sex.

You and other posters seem to think that this man should have asked for passport or other id before having sex, the rest of the world thinks that is really weird.

So

If you sell someone cigs under age it's your fault but if you rape them it's theirs

The law says the liability falls to ensure you have consent

So if you have sex with someone who is legally incapable of giving consent...

" Also, the fact he actually asked her age is in his favour because it shows he was actually making an effort to follow the law."

Or was it because he might have thought she was underage? At which point, asking doesn't make it ok.

"Would a reasonable person expect a drunk person in a taxi rank to be capable of consent full stop?"

Couldn't agree more.

It's not a difficult concept people.

Its interesting sex is now being compared to the transaction of buying alcohol.

Where did that happen Scottish?

There's definitely. Comparison anyway. Both require a certainty the other person is competent and legally capable of engaging in the transaction.

I also hope that my son, when he is 19, doesn't drunkenly pick up a drunk stranger in a taxi queue, and have sex with her in a friend's flat, having been assured by her that she is conveniently just the age of consent.

Because I'm prim.

If you sell someone cigs under age it's your fault but if you rape them it's theirs

So, you set up the question but aren't interested in the rational answer. Just carry on repeating the same thing over and over again until everyone who disagrees has left the thread. Pretty pitiful.

the rest of the world thinks that is really weird.
Why is it such a weird idea? We accept being ID'd to buy drink, if we look as if we could be underage, to protect youngsters from alcohol. Why not be willing to do likewise for sex ( and even then, only would be needed if it was someone you didn't know)

Actually drunk consent is a difficult issue especially if both parties have been drinking. You can be intoxicated and still have capacity to consent. It can depend on how drunk you are.

Putting sex on the same footing as a transaction in a shop, yes I find that weird.

Thing is, I think sex is more important than a transaction in a shop, and protecting a child from the possibility of pregnancy, std and emotional damage is even more important than preventing them from getting drunk.

Thefallenmadonna I hope so too! From what I know of my son, it wouldn't happen, but who knows? I can't follow him around shaking my head on a night out, just have to hope I've brought him up right. I think maybe the ID thing should become the norm, for those that do.

I think I have the rational answer that adultsshould protect children even from themselves and that the responsibility for this sits with the adults thank you funny.

Rape law in general recognises the responsibility is with the penetrator to ensure that it's consented. End of.

I am NOW feeling sorry for this man RIP recognised he got it wrong andcpleaded guilty but has so many women somehow trying to insist he has a right to put his penis anywhere regardless of where it is as long as he thinks it's ok. He isn't insisting that.

Would a reasonable person expect a drunk person in a taxi rank to be capable of consent full stop?

Depends what is meant by 'drunk'. If it is being unable to walk and talk (not ok), that's very different to be loud and uninhibited (ok), unless you are suggesting we introduce the breathalyser to demonstrate adequate levels of informed consent.

Oops not rip that should be who 😳

SuperBeagle - You seem to have missed the basic fact that this man was convicted of the offence. Your statements about the law are wrong.

The fact he genuinely believed the girl was over 16 is not a defence. This is a strict liability offence so mens rea (guilty intent) is not required for the defendant to be found guilty. The only available defence is that the accused did not have penetrative sex with the victim. If she had been over 13 the law does allow a defence that he thought she was over 16. That defence is not available if the victim is under 13 as in this case.

However, the fact that everyone who saw the victim that night appears to have thought she was substantially older than her actual age is a mitigating factor which the judge has taken into account, resulting in an absolute discharge. Note, however, that the OP isn't entirely correct in saying he got off scot-free. He was convicted. This conviction is on his record and will appear on any DBS checks for the rest of his life.

This trial took place under Scottish law which is broadly the same as English law for this particular offence. However, there are currently no sentencing guidelines in Scotland. The guidelines in England suggest that this offence would have fallen into category 3B (lowest level of harm, lowest level of culpability) so the normal sentencing range would be 6-11 years. However, the courts are able to step outside the guidelines in exceptional cases so it is not impossible that he would have received an absolute discharge if this had happened in England.

In my opinion, the sentence was reasonable in the circumstances, though I think we need to re-think our attitudes to casual sex and the age of consent as a society. It's a strange world when you need to look over 25 to be served a bottle of wine on Tesco, but only look 16 to have sex.... when having sex has far more consequences potentially than drinking some wine!