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AIBU?

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Original poster

To ask how you feel about Article 50 being triggered tomorrow

755 replies

Ehsamy · 13/03/2017 11:37

or at some point this month?

And I know there is a EU board tucked away somewhere but I'm interested in everyone's views.

OP posts:
Applebite · 14/03/2017 13:39

(If you don't laugh, you'll cry!)

WrongTrouser · 14/03/2017 13:42

Probably because our rights and our economic well-being (and that of our children) are being affected by something we don't want and didn't vote for

This explains why it is so important to you but, to me, it doesn't explain anger and hatred (not saying you fell hatred, Smalls, I don't know whether you do or not) towards people who voted leave.

People who voted leave presumably did so because they thought their rights and economic well-being were damaged by being in the EU. Why be angry with people because they have made a legitimate political choice according to their own situation and values, just because it differs to yours?

GraceGrape · 14/03/2017 13:45

Perhaps so, wrong. But there have been some very vocal and unpleasant anti-EU voices for the last 40 years! The situation is still very new and raw and a lot of people are very angry.

Clandestino · 14/03/2017 13:45

Honestly, it's about time Scotland and Northern Ireland made up their minds and see if they keep wanting to remain colonised or seek independence. As someone who feels strongly about the right of nations to be independent, I am for independent Scotland and united Ireland.

5moreminutes · 14/03/2017 13:50

Notangelina people don't want to fight and argue with their friends, family, neighborly and work colleagues so they chat about uncontentious topics and don't rock the boat, it's easier to just get along with those you see every day.

On anonymous internet forums people can rant about or discuss and debate what they really think/ feel / care or worry about without falling out with the people they have to live alongside.

The fact nobody in "RL" is picking arguments with you doesn't mean they are all ambivalent or happy about Brexit.

It's the epitome of Britishness to ignore the elephant in the room and talk about the weather isn't it?? Doesn't mean people aren't thinking all the things they aren't saying...

Puzzledandpissedoff · 14/03/2017 14:06

I know MN can seem like a parallel universe at times, but to read that folk are celebrating kicking out innocent people is surely a bit much

Granted we're in a period of some uncertainty, but it seems incredible that anyone seriously thinks we'd throw out countless thousands of perfectly decent people, even if this was possible - and considering the problems we have deporting even genuine undesirables that's hardly likely

FWIW I'm not at all comfortable about using human beings as some kind of bargaining chips, but looking at this rationally does it really make sense to start guaranteeing things for foreign nationals before we talk about what reciprocal arrangements will be in place for UK citizens?

As I suggested, a lot of things are going to be up for discussion, but it's hard to see how hysteria is going to help anyone

LouKout · 14/03/2017 14:15

I wish people would stop belittling others' fears by calling them hysterical
It's really patronising.

Devilishpyjamas · 14/03/2017 14:20

Agree lookout. I'm not remotely hysterical about my business going down the pan - I knew it would happen sooner or later as soon as the Brexit result was announced (admittedly it is a bit sooner than I expected, but my area is very niche).

I can understand why people worried about whether they'll be able to stay here might be rather anxious though.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 14/03/2017 14:27

I think you'll find, lou, that there's a difference between genuine worry over the kind of uncertainties I mentioned and claims that folk are celebrating some kind of imagined wholesale deportation

FWIW I've got some worries too over certain issues, but I'm trying to hang on to some rationality, proportion or whatever anyone prefers to call it

Flumpernickel · 14/03/2017 14:36

I think you'll find, lou, that there's a difference between genuine worry over the kind of uncertainties I mentioned and claims that folk are celebrating some kind of imagined wholesale deportation

^this^

LouKout · 14/03/2017 14:37

Some are though, im afraid.

Flumpernickel · 14/03/2017 14:41

Well, I havent found them on MN Lou. I think thats the point isnt it? I have no doubt there is a very small number of total idiots who feel that way, but to overestimate that sentiment in the general population is just frankly scare mongering IMO and certainly NOT helping matters.

5moreminutes · 14/03/2017 14:43

Puzzled have any EU countries said they want to kick British residents out though? I think it is only the UK trying this bargaining chip argument, most EU countries are pretty relaxed or even encouraging about British residents staying in their country. Some areas of Germany are even recruiting young Brits to stay, especially anyone university educated in Germany... Spain has indicated they'll let people stay too. There isn't any need to bargain, nobody has any wish to kick established residents out except possibly Theresa ...

felinewonderful · 14/03/2017 14:45

I feel upset, worried and despondent

Puzzledandpissedoff · 14/03/2017 14:50

have any EU countries said they want to kick British residents out though?

Not as far as I'm aware, no - in fact, just as you said, some are sensibly keen to hang on to those who they feel can make a real contribution

As I mentioned, though, it's not that I believe we'd ever deport random thousands of people, simply that it might be wise to wait until full negotiations start before deciding what we will and won't guarantee

Egoanono · 14/03/2017 14:59

notangelinajolie I find it best not to bring it up in real life. I am seething at those in real life who created this sorry mess. Brief chats I have had reveal aquaintences harbouring racist beliefs I thought had died out in the 70's or people voting on the basis of the lies told during the campaign- £350m to NHS etc etc.

notangelinajolie · 14/03/2017 15:00

Thanks for replying 5moreminutes good point. It's frustrating on here sometimes though when you want to have a proper discussion and someone throws something at you and stops the conversation dead. Probably guilty of it myself I guess the anonimity gives some the voice they don't have in RL. But yikes hope not everyone in RL is as secretly angry as some Mnetters - maybe I should go into hidingGrin

GreenPeppers · 14/03/2017 15:07

WT as an EU citizens who will be affected by all that in every way possible, I can tell you I haven't felt hatred.

But boy how angry have I been against Leavers for not realising the hardship they were going to put around 6?millions people (that's 3millions of eu citizens plus their partners, children and in laws, all of who will be British)

I have been very angry at the stupidity of some comments from Leave voters an at the naivety and innocence of some people (as shown on this thread actually).

I have been feeling l left down and like I had been sold something that wasn't the reality. A country that was welcoming, part of Europe (therefore being in the uk meant being like at home, not an immigrant), one that was always respecting others p, their beliefs, their language and their origins. well there is not a lot left of that....

And I have been appalled at a lot of the rethoric going round since the results, incl the 'just go back home' or 'well you should taken the citizenship, you obviously don't care about the uk if you haven't'

Nowdays, I'm scared and frightened but somehow have reconciled myself with the fact I am likely to see my family split up. I've come to the conclusion that, atm, I have no future in this country and therefore I'm acting like this. That means no investment from my business, no major buy for the house etc etc. It also means moving money out of the uk just in case. In effect, I have been told I'm not welcome therefore I'm taking measures for that.

But you see a lot of that is coming rom what Leavers have been saying too.
Because 'hate' as you call it is well and truly there on BOTH SIDES.

Egoanono · 14/03/2017 15:12

Greenpeppers I am so sorry you are going through this. Please take some comfort from the fact that nearly 50% of us voters didn't want this to happen. We stand with you.

Effendi · 14/03/2017 15:19

Worried. We live in another EU country. Will we be third country nationals?
Husband applying for his Irish passport just in case.

shovetheholly · 14/03/2017 15:26

I think that the brake on people's behaviour in person is more 'real' than the bile they spout (and I'm talking about both side of the debate here). When people are confronted by the faces of others in real life, the respect they show is the 'real' them. Below the line comments and online bitchiness are the unreal side - because it's easy to be unsympathetic and nasty when you are not immediately confronted with the hurt it causes.

I think for a long time we have been developing mechanisms in this country of not confronting the other in a holistic way that affords them space. Some of those things are technological, some are ideological (demonisation being one - and again, I'm talking about both sides). We need, with some urgency, to get back to the human face of debate and the fact that we need to work together if we are going to make the future anything more than us all getting screwed by capital and globalisation.

notangelinajolie · 14/03/2017 15:28

Greenpeppers I am also sorry you are feeling so scared and frightened. For what it's worth I really don't think you or any of the other EU citizens and their families who came legally to this country to live/work/set up business etc and made it their home will be asked to leave. Nor do I see other EU countries telling the Brits living in other EU countries to return to the UK. This uncertaintity is not helping anyone and I believe it will be at the very top of the list when negotiations begin.

MrsDoylesladder · 14/03/2017 15:34

"Honestly, it's about time Scotland and Northern Ireland made up their minds and see if they keep wanting to remain colonised or seek independence. As someone who feels strongly about the right of nations to be independent, I am for independent Scotland and united Ireland."
Leaving aside Scottish ceceding from UK - whoever posted this needs to read up a bit on Northern Ireland. You do know, the majority there don't want a united Ireland, don't you. And they've been holding this view for centuries.

GreenPeppers · 14/03/2017 15:37

Yes but the damage has already been done TBH.
When I was once feeling that the uk was my home, probably my forever home, now it isn't.

And it won't be for a very long time, if ever, because the trust has been broken.

This is not just me. Every single 'foreigner' I spoke to is feeling in a similar way.

I also suspect that this referendum has also broken trust for some British people too.
The ones that have close family and friends who are eu citizens.
The ones who who ended up on the receiving end of nasty comments, the 'go back home' brigade, even though they had taken the steps to become Britain citizens. But hey ho, you can't tell that from their accent so ...
The ones that did and do believe in the tolerance and openness that use to be the norm.

By playing the immigration card and use immigrants as scapegoat, the uk has damaged the fabric of its country.
A shame it didn't realise that before hand.