It's another inlaws AIBU...!

[ToastMama]

I'll try to keep this brief. In laws have serious form for not respecting boundaries and for over stepping the mark when it comes to our kids (7 and 3). However as it is largely well meant I have to let it be, and try to just roll with it as much as possible. They've offered (again, very kindly) to look after the boys while we're at various weddings etc this summer. I've just found out they've booked to take them on a caravanning weekend - including our puppy, who will apparently sleep in the awning (I'm assuming this is an outdoor part of the caravan? I'm not a camper)

AIBU to think it would have been polite of them to have a conversation with us first before going ahead and booking? They seem to operate on "we'll provide childcare in exchange for doing whatever we want to do with them" basis. I'm extremely grateful for the offer of childcare, but my FIL is a controlling bully and this just feels so manipulative.

Doh off them.

I'd be really pleased to be honest. I think it's great that the kids will get to do something fun while your off enjoying yourselves.

Update - DH spoke properly with FIL and questioned the likelihood of all 3 DILs being difficult, molly coddling control freaks and suggested that his behaviour towards us and the grandchildren in general might be the problem. The DC are now going for one night (pup will stay with friends of ours) and we'll stay over close by (luckily the campsite isn't too far from the wedding - much to FILs annoyance!)

DH went to great lengths to explain that while the offer of taking them away is very kind and well intended (it almost certainly wasn't) we feel the children are just a bit young still and if they could run plans like this by us first that would be great.

FIL is sulking. I've checked on MIL to make sure he's not taking it out on her. He's getting worse with age sadly, he wasn't always this bad.

My Mum does this and whilst it doesn't bother me, it irritates my husband.

He is most definitely unreasonable, OP. your father in law seems to have problems but you have worked your way round to a better conclusion for you. Is there anything you know he likes to do (other than belittle women, obviously!!)?? Does he like to go on walks in nice parks or something? What I'm thinking is, say he's into walking by lakes or rivers etc - find somewhere near where the caravan is going to be, the day you go to pick children up, suggest that as it's a beautiful day maybe a walk around this 10 minute drive away lake might be nice for you all, with lunch at the end? You are being delightful, accommodating and he will fucking hate it!! But what a lovely gesture for gc to spend time with GP and P.

I have learned this the hard way with my MIL. she cannot stand to be nice to me. Even my friends husband, when we all went on holiday together (my idea, thought it would be nice for her to spend time with my baby yada yada yada) noticed her being a complete bitch to me! Hey ho. I now, as much as I can, ignore her jibes. The discontent in her is almost palpable!!

This would really annoy me ! Help with childcare is great but they definitely should have asked about a holiday away xxxx

So pleased that you have found a good solution to it all.

What is important, no matter that some other MNetters thought you were ungrateful, is that YOU felt that your FiL is a bully, manipulative and toxic and this was organised without your permission.

And five days away from you is a loooong time for a three year old, and possibly too long for the 7 year old.

Importantly, as a dog and puppy owner, I certainly would never allow my puppy to be 'kept' out under the awning. Apart from the loneliness, cold, weather, and risk of her getting lost, I'm very much afraid that there are some wicked people around who would steal a puppy for dog baiting or to sell. It happens all over the country, nowhere is safe.

As your in laws have their own caravan, you may want to consider your children staying with them for a short while when they are older and ONLY when you and your husband have discussed and agreed it.

Well done for a sensible, calm and practical solution. 💐

They should have asked.

Glad you found a not-too-annoying compromise OP.
FIL sounds like an awful person to have around and to have to 'manage'. YWNBU in the slightest & I can't believe some of the posters on here who suggested you were. Bonkers. Your kids, your rules & anyone trying to control that is bu. How dare ANYONE plan a holiday for someone else's dc without asking first?! Even their gc.

My sil can be like that on occasion, to a lesser extent, but it really gets under my skin and that feeling of being out of control with your own dc is awful. To undermine and disrespect you like that....I feel for you. Glad your DH stood up for you. Well done on making that stand.

Definitely make other arrangements for puppy otherwise an awning would be far too easy for an escape or theft.

They should have checked with you just out of courtesy really . Also check the puppy will be secure in any awning and can't get out easily - that would worry me . Good Luck !

You are not being unreasonable, they are being entitled. That is crazy if you ask me.. most people I know don't even have their 3 year old sleeping over at places yet.. let alone 5 days. My in laws are this same way though, they have no respect for me as the mother. My husband comes from a very religious and patriarchal family. They have at times downright demanded more time and claimed they are the patriarchal authority over my home lol!! After a few years of that I had enough and put my foot down once and for all. You will be proud of yourself once you do. It is lovely to have helpful family around, but the ones who undermine and disrespect the mother of their grandchildren probably shouldn't be in charge of caring for them in your absense... IMO best of luck!

Glad you managed to talk to them about it and reach some sort of compromise. I think the big difference is that your FIL is a bully and you only need a day (or possibly overnight) childcare and they've booked a week holiday with the children. That's definitely different to our similar experiences.

My PIL took DD on week holidays, I don't mind their driving, they're probably more safety conscious with her than we are (she's totally spoilt and mollycoddled when she's with them too!) and it's when we've needed significant childcare due to childminder annual leave and we're working. Plus they always spoke to us first and we built up to a week away. We were 100% happy for them to look after DD with no worries about her care.

In laws relationships are a minefield. Everyone thinks everyone else is being unreasonable. Mine think I'm a weirdo, I'm just happy that they leave us largely alone, after many years of trying to get them to back off. It's just the way it is - different family values coming together and either working, or not.

Yeah they've overstepped the boundary ...

However as it is largely well meant I have to let it be, and try to just roll with it as much as possible

This is never a good way to handle piss takers or bullies.

If it were my kids, i don't care how 'unreasonable' they tried to make me out to be, i would stand up to them no matter how much fil sulked/fell out etc.

Do you ever give your fil some home truths to his face when he tries to demean you?
Perhaps after a few slanging matches he will learn?

op I am still working my way through this thread!

But so far...

YANBU.

I agree with liquidrevolution and ontherise from page 2. I would make alternative arrangments and tell.in laws that is what you have done.

Personally I would not want my kids with a sexist bully, unsupervised, I would not want my kids with people I did not really trust or where I felt the children would not be happy.

No you do not need to be grateful because your in laws are willing to look after your kids. Not if they plan to take them away for five days without consulting you.

If you want to tell Dh it is not going to happen. Tell FIL/MIL it is not going to happen. If you get the idea your FIL is disrespectful of you, just call him out on it

"I know my own children, this is too long away from me/us and so we have found an alternative sitter for the wedding. It was very inappropriate of you to book five days away without consulting us/me."

Don't be on the defensive 'sorry' etc.Be assertive, "We were upset you booked this without asking us."

Do that if that is what you want to do.

"I'm extremely grateful for the offer of childcare, but my FIL is a controlling bully and this just feels so manipulative."

Then the answer to the offer of childcare is No! Why would you want your children to be in the care of a controlling bully?

An awning is an unsecured area outside the caravan. A puppy could easily escape, you could look at placing your puppy in your local kennels for the time you are away.

I wonder how many people just know your kids will have a great time!

livingtoy "The way I see it you either trust people to look after your children or you don't."

This may be true for you but not for some of us. My kids are fine being looked after in thiee/our home/locally but would certainly not feel comfortable overnight etc at another home.

Parents know what kids like/don't like, so sitters should not assume things, even if they are related.

Um - the thread is from March - trip may have come and gone!

Amazed so many people think this is normal. Beginning to think people think it is all normal and fine because there is no risk of it happening to them!

perstacho camping is different to looking after kids elsewhere. I would noy trust a three year old with people who may let them wander off round a campsite unsupervised.

Jessikita what do you think is nice about taking the Op three year old away for five days without consulting her?

Do you think most three year olds would feel OK being seperated from parents for that long? Some might, but it is clear this is not normal for OP's kids.

The grandparents don't need to cancel they can go away together and you can find alternative childcare, OP if that is what you want.

Your FIL not looking up from his phone would 've the final straw for me.

Ha ha, got to the e d and tripwaa in March!!!!! OP I hope you've worked out ground rules for future contact with your kids.

Sounds like my inlaws, they feel they don't have to discuss anything with us and can just do as they please! 😩

"we'll provide childcare in exchange for doing whatever we want to do with them" basis.

Thats exactly what it is.

I call it kindness tinged with acid - its not help with childcare from goodness of the heart, its a manipulative and controlling agenda that seems innocuous from the outside, others may think you are lucky, but its shit to deal with. Similar situation when DDs were young

You will have to speak to them and also get your own childcare for some occasions, as I did, or put up with it. There's no other way. Risk they may withdraw all childcare as you aren't doing what they want, but its a risk you take.

I wondered if they were active elders, as want to take young children on holiday...? As opposed to easily tired

I brought DDs up alone - but you have a partner - doesn't he say anything?! His parents have had their time bringing up their own chiidren, I presume without interference. They need to fall back, simple as that

'I'm not confident they will be safe or happy, that's my worry' .... Well then why did you want to use them as babysitters so you could go to this wedding? Make up your mind, either they are safe and caring and trustworthy to look after your kids for the weekend or an unsafe bully in which case you shouldn't be leaving your children with them so you can go to a wedding.