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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Judge's warning to drunk women

985 replies

FirstShinyRobe · 10/03/2017 21:47

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39233617

AIBU to think she had a marvellous platform with her retirement speech to issue instead a warning to men not to rape women?

OP posts:
JedBartlet · 13/03/2017 10:47

Sorry if this has been said already, I haven't RTFT but I am saddened by several posts where people have said 'it was not my fault, but if I hadn't been drunk, I wouldn't have put myself in that exact situation at that exact time and I wouldn't have been raped, so I will never do that again'.

Car crashes happen every day. If I was in a horrible car crash that was the fault of the other driver driving dangerously, of course sometimes I would think 'if only I had left my house 2 minutes earlier/later/driven a different route that wouldn't have happened to me. ' However.

The car crash may still have happened, but to someone else.

It doesn't follow that if you NEVER take that route again, NEVER leave your house at that time again, NEVER drive that car again, you will avoid being in a car crash in the future. There's nothing you can do to prevent dangerous drivers being on the roads. It's just really fucking bad luck if you meet one.

You would expect any government/judicial warnings about dangerous drivers to highlight the importance of people not driving like twats. It wouldn't be on you, the innocent party, to avoid dangerous drivers, because how do you identify one until they smash into your car?

Most rapes are not committed by strangers on drunk vulnerable women. If society REALLY feels that women should take action to prevent themselves being raped, the best advice is: Don't get married. Don't have male friends. Don't have boyfriends/fiances/male family members/male colleagues. PROTECT YOURSELF.

Or, I guess, we focus on the actual problem, which is men taking responsibility for their own behaviour.

Elendon · 13/03/2017 10:50

Opal Calm down.

OpalFruitsMarathonsandSpira · 13/03/2017 10:50

Elendon Are you suggesting your study of two is representative! Hmm

OpalFruitsMarathonsandSpira · 13/03/2017 10:51

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MrsBertBibby · 13/03/2017 10:57

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PageNowFoundFileUnderSpartacus · 13/03/2017 10:57

Oh Elendon, I'm so embarrassed for you. Everyone knows you don't echo someone else's sentiments to try and 'win' an online discussion. Awkward.

How childish, condescending and rude.

There's only one person coming out of this exchange looking pathetic, and it's not Elendon.

OpalFruitsMarathonsandSpira · 13/03/2017 11:05

Apologise for getting riled elendon. What I should have said is I am perfectly calm but I think you are so rigid in you opinions that you are actually harming your messages.

A tree that is unbending is easily broken.

OpalFruitsMarathonsandSpira · 13/03/2017 11:07

MrsBertBibby There was no need for that. Rtft and you'll see that.

Willyoujustbequiet · 13/03/2017 11:07

I was married for over 20 years very happily. I trusted him completely. A good man.

He raped me one night after a huge argument. He maintains it was consensual and that I wanted it really despite me sobbing and begging him to stop.

I will never trust another man again as long as I live.

Elendon · 13/03/2017 11:09

Opal Nothing you say will stop me speaking. I will not be silenced.

OpalFruitsMarathonsandSpira · 13/03/2017 11:10

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TheWoodlander · 13/03/2017 11:11

Opal, I don't think there's any need for you to feel embarrassment for Elendon, I think you should look a bit closer to home - your posts are a bit off, and you could certainly afford to show a bit of empathy.

Rape is a sensitive subject, and there are many rape victims speaking candidly and sensitively on this thread - yet you have declared that you can say what you like, you don't care if you offend, and compared hearing other people's experiences as like "watching a sad film".

For someone who 'doesn't care about strangers', you sure do spend a lot time on an anonymous forum.

Elendon · 13/03/2017 11:14

Who are you to define what I say is useful or not Opal?

Batteriesallgone · 13/03/2017 11:17

Do a quiz of 10 people you know and ask them if they would prefer their mum/sister/daughter to be raped or burgled. I would be very surprised if anyone said 'oooh that's hard, the impact on the victim is comparable isn't it?' Hmm

I don't know why it didn't occur to the judge, in her last case, that she's mostly seen trials where the rape was fairly unambiguously rape, with 'just' the clouding issue of how much alcohol had been drunk. Why she didn't sigh a deep sigh and appeal for women who had been raped by husbands / friends to be believed too, for those cases to be brought in front of judges too.

There was a story on mumsnet told by a woman of her experience on a postnatal ward. The partner of a woman who had just given birth was in the cubicle with his partner. He wanted sex with his partner. She had just given birth, and did not. He climbed on the bed and did it anyway. In a ward with just the curtains closed, with staff around. Everyone heard.

More education probably wouldn't have stopped him being an abusive bastard. But in a world where rape of your partner was totally socially unacceptable, someone would surely have phoned the police, and the evidence of all those witnesses would have been enough to put him away.

As it was she went home with him to a life of DV, no doubt.

If we as a society close our eyes to the rape of vulnerable women we only increase the chances of 'sensible' women who've taken precautions being raped. Because we create the culture, as OP said, of male entitlement. A culture it is incredibly hard for a man to realise he is part of, no matter how lovely that man is.

My husband is well aware of my history. There have been many times when the way he has behaved has upset me. Tiny things, a look, a touch, but done in the 'male entitlement' theme. He was devastated at first to realise he behaves like that, and had never had call to examine his behaviour before. Why would he? It's the model we see all around us in everyday life.

My husband wouldn't rape me. I know this, I know what absolute trust is. But he had still been touched - shadowed - by the culture we have around us. That made both of us deeply sad. People in positions of authority should be seeking to address and challenge that culture. Not tinker at the edges repeating mundane warnings we've all heard before, that mask and hide the soul of the issue.

Elendon · 13/03/2017 11:17

And Opal. If I want your opinion on how I should think and write, I'll ask for it.

Okay?

OpalFruitsMarathonsandSpira · 13/03/2017 11:17

You are correct woodlander I have got sucked into this thread. I find it offensive that you seem to have to 'show you scars' on this thread in order to be given a voice. I guess I'm quite frustrated about that. It's good for thought.

OpalFruitsMarathonsandSpira · 13/03/2017 11:17

Food

OpalFruitsMarathonsandSpira · 13/03/2017 11:18

Do a quiz of 10 people you know and ask them if they would prefer their mum/sister/daughter to be raped or burgled. I would be very surprised if anyone said 'oooh that's hard, the impact on the victim is comparable isn't it?

Shock

Neither of course. What an odd thing to write. I wouldn't wish either on anyone.

OpalFruitsMarathonsandSpira · 13/03/2017 11:20

I don't know why it didn't occur to the judge, in her last case, that she's mostly seen trials where the rape was fairly unambiguously rape, with 'just' the clouding issue of how much alcohol had been drunk. Why she didn't sigh a deep sigh and appeal for women who had been raped by husbands / friends to be believed too, for those cases to be brought in front of judges too.

Her closing remarks directly related to her last case

Sint · 13/03/2017 11:21

Sorry if this has been said already, I haven't RTFT but I am saddened by several posts where people have said 'it was not my fault, but if I hadn't been drunk, I wouldn't have put myself in that exact situation at that exact time and I wouldn't have been raped, so I will never do that again'

It is indeed very sad. Do you not think it true?

Batteriesallgone · 13/03/2017 11:22

Well obviously neither is not an acceptable answer in my hypothetical question. Think of it as one of those philosophical dilemmas.

OpalFruitsMarathonsandSpira · 13/03/2017 11:24

Well obviously neither is not an acceptable answer in my hypothetical question

I used to know a horrible group of youths in my school who used to force us to answer questions like this. It was bullying I suppose but it wasn't called that then.

MycatsaPirate · 13/03/2017 11:25

I was raped while completely sober in the middle of the day.

I still froze through fear. I still didn't fight him off, He had a knife at my throat.

Do you think if I'd been drunk it would have been my fault?

I despair when a woman comes out with this kind of victim blaming bollocks.

OpalFruitsMarathonsandSpira · 13/03/2017 11:27

Of course I'm sorry that happened you. It would never be your fault.

Where. Did. She. Say. It. Was. The. Victims. Fault?

Batteriesallgone · 13/03/2017 11:27

Sorry I forgot, Opal, after you were so breaktakingly rude yesterday I said I wasn't going to talk to you. I see you are continuing your rudeness today by passive aggressively calling me a bully. My mistake I shouldn't have risen to it.