Judge's warning to drunk women

[FirstShinyRobe]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39233617

AIBU to think she had a marvellous platform with her retirement speech to issue instead a warning to men not to rape women?

You may believe that. But unfortunately it isn't true.

Sorry that was to opal not you totally.

Agree with birds

Birds I do believe that. Whole-heartedly. If you feel differently then you are entitled to believe that it is untrue. I'll be sleeping soundly tonight.

Some people are pointing out the judge only gave safety advice to women and this could apply to any crime but I am struggling to think any other types of crime where a judge has given safety advice whether it's murder, burglary or robbery. Can anyone else think of any cases.

Can anyone else think of any cases.

Not a judge, no, but I have been reprimanded by local police.

I am struggling to think any other types of crime where a judge has given safety advice whether it's murder, burglary or robbery.

Me too Totally. It struck me as the sort of thing you'd do on your last day at school. But then you are considerably younger than this judge and can be forgiven for doing madcap, attention-seeking things.

I am struggling to think any other types of crime where a judge has given safety advice whether it's murder, burglary or robbery. Can anyone else think of any cases

Police are considering not investigating burglaries where the home owner has been negligent and left the property unsecured.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/16/police-should-not-investigate-preventable-burglaries-senior-offi/

I would say that goes way, way further into the territory of victim-blaming. Also, what about adverts warning people not to get into a car with a drunk driver? Is that victim-blaming? Surely it's not the passenger's fault?

Also, what about TV programs that are designed to warn elderly people about the risk of rogue-traders? Or advice for people to avoid identity-theft? Again, do people think that these seek to blame the victim, or are they designed to make people more aware that they might become vulnerable?

The judge said drunk women are more likely to be raped but provided no empirical evidence to back this up. She said drunk women are less likely to be believed but again provided no evidence to back it up with

She is probably speaking from her extensive experience of rape trials. Since a lot of her speech was not reported (it was far more balanced in real life), it's probably not worth picking it apart too much.

allchattedout Identity theft is an excellent example. I'm sure people who fall for these scams already feel so judged and stupid - should that prevent us from warning others to exercise more caution?

I was raped while drunk

I didn't report it
I didn't tell my parents
I was ashamed and believed it wouldn't have happened if I hadn't have drunk so much.
I blamed myself
I am angry at my attackers (there were a number of them)

I was school age and although I never told a sold the blokes involved told a few people (obviously beleiveing they did nothing wrong),
I then was slut shamed for the rest of my time at that school, left school as soon as I could.

That one night has affected the whole of the rest of my life

So the point I am saying is what the judge said confirms my original thoughts that it was partly me to blame.

Where as I started to forgive myself a few years ago.

Keep going with that self-forgiveness dilapidated. You did nothing wrong. Nothing at all.

to you and everyone else who has shared their experience on this thread.

It wasnt you to blame dilapitated

No one on here thinks that

dilapitated it absolutely wasn't your fault and I'm sorry believed it was your fault and didn't report it, or confide in your parents.

I absolutely agree with the judges words, but she wasn't saying you are to blame. She was using her platform to warn young women so as they might avoid having the same experience you had.

You were not to blame.

I'm sure people who fall for these scams already feel so judged and stupid

Opal I agree. I think it is very common and acceptable for people to explicitly say to victims of ID fraud or theft 'well you're really stupid for not taking precautions'. For rape, it is unacceptable to say that, although it can feel like that for the victim. But I have never heard anyone say that warning people about theft or fraud is victim-blaming and that we should stop people from stealing.

Yes opalfruits there's nothing wrong with giving safety advice about all sorts of crime. Buts that's where it stops with other crimes. Judges don't reduce the sentence for rapists based on whether the victim could have done anything to prevent the crime, this judge also said juries are less likely to convict if the woman was drunk as she had a bad memory but the rape conviction rate has been falling for 20 years or more, drunk rape has only recently started to come to prominence.

It's such an interesting example because I was a victim of a scam email and I was 'victim-blamed' by a friend. I just kind of told them to fuck off and carried on my day.

I wouldn't for a second imagine that they shouldn't warn others (in fact, I warned others).

It's fucking difficult because rape is such a sensitive issue. But it's an interesting comparison.

It's also interesting to read survivors of rape coming on this thread agreeing with the judges sentiments.

So the point I am saying is what the judge said confirms my original thoughts that it was partly me to blame

Dilapidated, no, please never think you were at fault. The judge did not say that either. The person at fault was your rapist. What the judge meant was that it can become easier for rapists to carry out their crimes if their victim is drunk, because when you are drunk, you become more vulnerable. That does not make the victim at fault and nor does it mean that all rapes involve alcohol.

Judges don't reduce the sentence for rapists based on whether the victim could have done anything to prevent the crime

If you are scammed and give over your life savings but gave out sensitive information you get nada.

VERY good comparison allchattedout.

Judges don't reduce the sentence for rapists based on whether the victim could have done anything to prevent the crime

They don't for rape either. The sentencing guidelines do not permit a reduction based on whether the victim could have prevented the crime. If this is what people think, it is a myth.

You can read the guidelines here:

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Final_Sexual_Offences_Definitive_Guideline_content_web1.pdf

Judges don't reduce the sentence for rapists based on whether the victim could have done anything to prevent the crime

SORRY, Totally, I completely misread your post. I thought you were saying the opposite of what you were saying. Apologies.

Totally misinterpreted that too.

Lol, Opal, at least I am not the only one...

Actually, reading the sentencing guidelines, it is an aggravating factor if the rapist uses drugs or alcohol to facilitate the offence. But at the same time, police warn women that they should not leave drinks unattended and should not accept drinks from strangers etc. So, it is clear that giving that advice is not 'victim-blaming' because the law recognises that someone who spikes drinks is even more culpable. It is instead designed to protect potential victims.