Judge's warning to drunk women

[FirstShinyRobe]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39233617

AIBU to think she had a marvellous platform with her retirement speech to issue instead a warning to men not to rape women?

Elendon

Thanks for confirming my point which is that NOBODY has said that by dressing as a prostitue you are 'asking for it'

You are attributing imaginary meanings to other people's posts that are not true. No one on this thread has said that anyone other than a rapist is responsible for a rape. No one. Not one single person. You keep saying that they have but they haven't.

That is what I think this judge was doing.

Maybe not clear - I think the judge giving sensible advice.

Am I on trial InsideOut? Because I feel I am

Dressing like a prostitute is an indication that you think the person will be asking for it.

I stand by that.

Old fashioned I know, but there you go. Drink and you think you contributed to your rape because you didn't think to take the longer road and took the short cut instead. Because you thought you had too much to drink.

Elendon
Of course you are not on trail but you are the one continuing to make up untrue and very offensive things about other posters. You have said that there are posters on this thread that would blame the rape victims if they were drunk when they were raped. That is extremely offensive and completely untrue. You have been asked to back up your wild allegations but you have been unable to.

Sorry, but if you are selling sex then you are asking for sex. You will dress then like someone who is selling sex is the implication of 'dressing like a prostitute'. If you can't see that then you are being malicious in your intent to deliberately misunderstand.

Anyway enjoy your evening InsiderOut.

I'm certainly going to.

The only warning about rape should be to the rspist/ potential rapist.
That...
If you do rape. It'll burned off slowly and agonisingly with acid, and. Then you'll be chocked with it.
It's a fuckin bad day. When women can't go out and get pissed on a night out. !!!!!!

I agree with you, Elendon. I just can't be arsed getting into protracted arguments on MN anymore

I agree with the OP completely.

It would be so nice to hear a judge saying "men who do go out and target drunken women should know that they will feel the full force of the law, and victims will be treated sympathetically when reporting rape."

That ^ would be a very appropriate statement to make after jailing a rapist for 6 years. And it would make such a nice change.

This is one of those scenarios when people start shouting 'victim blaming', but it is a conversation that MUST be had. Of course it isn't a woman's fault if she is raped while drunk. The only person to blame is the rapist.

But:
Most men are decent human beings who would never rape or sexually assault a woman.
Most daft lads who think it's a bit of fun to harass a woman on a boozy night out can be educated that this is totally unacceptable.
THERE WILL ALWAYS BE EVIL SICK FUCKERS WHO WILL RAPE WOMEN. There is no amount of censure and education that will stop this.

Surely it is not victim blaming to make sure women can look after themselves so they do not have to go through
1: The rape or assault in the first place
2: The court process where, even if the judge and jury recognise the woman is the innocent victim in the proceedings, and the criminal rapist is found guilty and imprisoned, the victim may be further traumatised.

And, of course, NO-ONE should get so drunk they are incapable of looking after their own safety, men as well as women.

You have said that there are posters on this thread that would blame the rape victims if they were drunk when they were raped. That is extremely offensive and completely untrue. You have been asked to back up your wild allegations but you have been unable to.

But when the sole message continues to be to women to do things to avoid being raped, then the responsibility is being placed on them.

Like it or not.

The ramifications of this are that society as a whole - if not individuals on his thread - hold women partly (if not wholly) responsible for putting themselves in a position to be raped. Society does. Defence lawyers do. Jurors do.

Elendon
Sorry, but if you are selling sex then you are asking for sex. You will dress then like someone who is selling sex is the implication of 'dressing like a prostitute'. If you can't see that then you are being malicious in your intent to deliberately misunderstand

???? That doesn't make any sense at all.

I haven't deliberately misunderstood anything. You said that posters had said that if a woman had had a drink then they would blame the woman. You also said that a poster said that a woman 'was asking for it' if they looked like a prostitue. Both of these statements are completely untrue.

No one can find one single post on this thread where someone has said that a woman who gets raped is in anyway responsible for getting raped regardless of what she was doing/drinking/wearing etc etc. The only person responsible when a rape occurs is the rapist.

But when the sole message continues to be to women to do things to avoid being raped, then the responsibility is being placed on them

It isnt the sole message and should never be the sole message. The main message HAS to be that rapists mustn't rape.

Advising my daughters to take care of themselves is NOT telling them they are responsible for whether or not they get raped.

I agree with woodlander

So it's impossible for people to not have sex and drink, even if this meant many 1000s of rapists would be prosecuted and therefore hopefully the number of rapes would diminish considerably. And it's impossible to stop some men raping so there's nothing to be done about that. And all women can do apart from wring their hands is ensure they don't get too drunk, don't wear too revealing clothing, don't walk alone at night and to also cross all their fingers that they don't know any rapists who don't give a shit about those things or have the misfortune to run into one.

100s of posts about 'common sense' drinking and dark alleys. I doubt there's a woman alive in the uk that hasn't heard this. Or a rapist.

Mermaid
I was planning a completely different post about responsible drinking then realised actually it makes zero difference to the risk of rape

I think statistically that is not true. In a very large proportion, alcohol is involved.

I would still advise them to stay in groups not get absolutely legless or dress like prostitutes

I would interpret the above as elendon does

No the poster is not saying that someone dressing like that deserves it but they are infering that someone dressed like a prostitute is making themselves 'vulnerable' or a 'target'

Judge makes sensible remark, usual bunch of crazies take issue... not surprised by this.

Out of interest, do ppl also take issue with police burglary crime prevention advice... is that also victim blaming?

Rapists are awful, terrible ppl, but they exist. Trying to look after yourself and take sensible precautions is just common sense. Applies to both genders - the more drunk / less capable you are, the more likely it is you'll be a victim of crime, whether rape, assault, robbery etc...

No burglary victim has ever been asked if they consented to being burgled, or if they secretly wanted it - that's the difference.

Rapists exist as your dads mate, your friends boyfriend, your boyfriend, your husband.

Stranger rape isn't the biggest category of rape, so why is it always focused on in this way?

And if the majority of rape cases she was seeing were stranger rape does that not tell her that the rarest form of rape is also the one with the more successful chance of a trial and prosecution? Does she not care at all about the majority of rape cases that happen in secret and are never reported?

She could have chosen this moment to say 'I've seen many rape cases in my career where the woman was vulnerable through drink. However I have seen few involving other vulnerable women, particularly those involving women vulnerable over a sustained period through homelessness, substance abuse etc. Not to mention those where her only vulnerability is that the woman has trusted the man enough to go on dates with him, marry him, bear his children. I want to send a message to rapists and society that rape is always rape, that seeking out and taking advantage of vulnerability is always illegal, and that the full weight of the law should be applied to such criminals, regardless of your history or place in society'

Or some such.

Quickly logging in to give praise and thanks to

Woodlander
Batteriesallgone
TheDowager
Nooka

For expressing in words far more elegantly than I ever can. And for their understanding.

thewoodlander

Are you sure? My recollection from my days of criminal law is your statement has to verify that you did not give permission for the burglar to enter your house/take your stuff.

Huh Elendon have we been reading the same post? Because I can't see anything offensive written here.

Thank you to the posters who get where I was coming from.

8% of rapes are stranger rapes (although I must look up how that is defined - I would class the rapists in this trial as strangers, but perhaps the compilers of the stats don't). That she felt fit to home in on the behaviour of women is actually quite interesting on another front. (if anyone has a full transcript, it would be interesting to see if this is a journalistic problem). She obviously sees this as an important factor in the cases she has had before her. So, of all the problems of getting cases to court, let alone convictions, the focus is on a tiny minority of rapes. I think that's why her comments jar for me.

Anyone going to comment on the entitlement factor that 2 of us have spoken about that absolutely should be part of a societal discussion? Which is why I started the thread?

Are you sure? My recollection from my days of criminal law is your statement has to verify that you did not give permission for the burglar to enter your house/take your stuff

Oh ffs. Are you serious ? Really ?

Apart from the odd idiot like the idiots who actually came out with statements that Kim Kardashian deserved to have her jewellery stolen, no-one, not the police, the Crown or the defence, is going to pursue the line you asked to be burgled or have your bag stolen or if you are a man, your Rolex stolen.

The police and your insurers , if you have insurance, will of consider that you might be setting up an insurance scam but that is a completely different issue.