To be enraged at DH's suggestion that he gives up work to become S/WAHF

[Millipede170]

I'm nearing the end of my mat leave with our first child. It's been harder than I thought it would be, difficult birth, some PND, have felt unsupported by my DH (long story, detail prob not relevant, but he's not a hands-on father so far). But I adore my son and will miss him terribly when I go back to work, and wish I didn't have to. We were discussing my return to work the other day, our DS going into childcare etc, when DH pipes up that he could quit his job and become a full-time Dad. Just like that. Because he said his salary is capped whereas my career has more legs (true, currently, but needn't always be the case).

It was like taking a bullet. I think because

1. he has absolutely no appreciation of how hard it is looking after a baby 24hrs a day (I have done both days and nights pretty much for the past year as I've been bf'ing and he's been working) and it just sounded so flippant - like yeah, I could do what you do no problem
2. I feel like I've done the really shit/hard bits, carrying DS, childbirth (breech), the newborn sleepless months, stuck in the house settling DS endlessly for naps etc. And now here comes more of the interactive 'fun' phase (not saying it isn't hard work mind you) and I get to go back to work and earn the money too 🤔

Am I U to feel that way?

... also her child is 10 months old, not 6 weeks old. She's seen how he is over this period.

Yea I was wondering at what point it would be 'op's fault'

no one is saying it's her fault, bit it's quite easy to find yourself doing everything and not really giving others a look in when it's your first, I know I did it.

Yoda

You're right, actually allowing him to do things on his own is key - it's reasonable to assume that he's perfectly capable, rather than assuming that he's not. (And to be clear, I didn't actually go back to work when DS was 6 weeks old, that's just the point that DH mentioned it )

Well that's not what she said.

She does allude to his general unsupportiveness so it seems this isn't a normal scenario

So much projection going on.

My Dad became the SAHP when I was 6 months old (in the eighties) for my Mum to go back to her career. He always said he enjoyed it and now they have my 2 year old 2 afternoons a week for me to work. The only negative he had was not being welcome in parent&toddler groups but that's probably different now.

Having my DS has totally changed my Mum's thoughts on my Dad bringing up me. She says she was jealous/a bit resentful that she worked and he stayed home but now she feels that was the best decision because my Dad has endless patience. I also have a new found awe of my Dad because parenting a toddler isn't the endless fun I was expecting! Taking him places is hard because I'm scared he'll kick off and stress me out. We don't have any contact from DS's dad and shared parenting is a bit of a mystery to me so apologies if I'm a bit out of touch.

Gumbo

I appreciate what you say. But it's not what she is saying. Her husband didn't mention being a SAHD at 6 weeks. He's brought it up now, suddenly, at 10 months, having not been supportive to her or involved with the baby.

baking

Yes, I think my DH would have made a good SAHD too. Probably as good as me, but in different ways

When people suggest "trying it", what do they mean by:

• what is the metric by which it can be said to have succeeded or failed? If he doesn't like it, and wants to drop it, that's one thing. what if he does like it, the OP is run ragged keeping it all afloat and wants him to go back to work? And he disagrees? How would that be resolved? What if he just isn't doing the job to a high enough standard and can't see that?

• if, following a trial, they agree that it wasn't the best thing and they decide that he should go back to work: how will that be managed? How will he get back into work so easily? (perhaps the answer to this question is parental leave with a definite end date)

• Bear in mind that if this goes wrong it will be a very costly experiment on the relationship and the OP does NOT want her relationship to end while her H is the "primary carer"

OP don't sleep walk into this. you don't sound keen and you sound as if you are being persuaded by people in very different circs than you.

AntiGrinch

I agree.

I wonder if the OP's DH said this as a throwaway. An annoying throwaway comment that has brought up lots of feeling for the OP about how little he's done so far.

Antigrinch people are suggesting annual or parental leave for a couple of weeks or a few weekends as a 'trial' - seeing as the OPs DH hasn't been 'hands-on' for 10 months so far. That won't have any getting back in the workplace implications.

Reading your further posts, I am wondering what exactly he does do.
You say he's shown zero interest in ds so far, isn't great at emotional support and hasn't even supported you financially during mat leave. Tbh, I think I'd rather have a childminder, who will at least be structuring the day around your child's needs.

It is all very well for posters to say it worked out well for them etc but they are comparing apples and oranges. Their husbands were interested, involved fathers.

The picture you are presenting here is of someone who isnt going to take this seriously and be respectful of the fact that it is work and requires effort. I think you are going to come home to a tip of a house and a baby whose basic needs have been met but nothing 'extra'. You will feel resentful and your family will have lost an income to facilitate this.

I would want to see a massive change in his attitude before I even gave this idea a second thought.

And mainly because OPs DH actually may not like the reality once he has tried it.

My exP was talking about this at one time. He did actually stay off work for around 9 months when my second maternity leave ended and for various reasons to do with our circs. it wasn't an insane suggestion but it really bugged me that I was out of the house with a big job and a long commute and would come home to find everything just flung at me. At times, it seemed, almost saved up for me. He never made me, or saved me a plate of, a meal. I used to cry on the stairs in the evenings because I was tired and hungry and used to get straight off the train, go into bath time and bedtime, and spend ages settling dd2 again and again who was being a bugger with bedtime at the time. He would go downstairs and watch TV. It was fucking awful.

then he got a job. Later, he suggested dropping it or going full time and like the OP I just saw red. I couldn't believe he thought that his presence in the house was anything but a lazy irritant to me, and it was infuriating that he thought his version of doing the job was anything remotely equivalent to mine. I can't remember exactly how this conversation went but I didn't encourage him to do it and it didn't happen.

Now we are separated and I can't believe how close I got to a situation where I would have had to work like a bastard AND support him and my children in a house without me. We have shared care of the dcs, a house each, and no one pays maintenance to anyone. It is the best possible outcome.

I am writing all this not to hijack the thread but firstly, for full disclosure - yes I have a particular POV on this coloured by my experience; and secondly, because it is important to note in our very "yay dads! dads are great!" on mn that many or most dads are just not trained or socialised to do a job of caring for children and supporting their partners in the home as well as women are. I am not saying they can't in principle, or that they shouldn't. But honestly, realistically, they just don't, right now.

I think we have a narrative that is very encouraging towards them because we've taken the decision, on this board anyway, on some collective unconscious level, that right now the state of evolution that our society is in requires us to be very jolly and encouraging and uncritical (and actually rather patronising) to men, in an attempt to get them to do anything at all. Maybe it's part of a bigger project where their half arsed ness will actually get criticised and developed at some point, once they have begun to do anything at all. Maybe not - maybe women will carry the can forever.

However, theoretical ramblings aside, in this the OP is furious, and there is a reason for it, based on her own experience and instincts. She would do better to listen to this than to a bunch of optimistic pollyannas on the internet. Because if this goes tits up she will LOSE her children who will NOT be living with her and she will STILL be working full time to support them and perhaps living in a bedsit

There are immediate changes you could make so that your H does a fairer amount of parenting, domestic work and so on.

Just say no way to his suggestion; and assume that you will both work.

Neither DH or I would want the other to be a SAHP, for example because of financial/economic risks, my wish not to be financially dependent ob a man, and pressure of being "sole breadwinner", so we both work, I went PT for a few years and now both work FT although I still do more of the parenting and he works longer hours.

The risks of losing residency of DC / paying maintenance are also not negligable for the WoHP.

I mean maintenance for the former spouse.

Even if he were a great father/partner, which he's clearly not, it would not be U, for any reason, for you to be unwilling to agree to him ceasing paid work. SAHP model requires both partners' full agreement: if either doesn't want it, for any reason, both WoH makes sense.

Well said AntiGrinch.

"STILL be working full time to support them and perhaps living in a bedsit"

Worse! Military single accommodation block!

Maybe have a nice long weekend away without either? Friday to Monday

I don't think the long weekend thing works for guys like this. He will see it as an anomaly, because in his mind he is quite sure that it is reasonable that his wife will get home every day, tidy up, make the grown ups dinner and put things in the fridge for the children tomorrow. The fact that he isn't managing to do all these things as he goes along will be her fault because she has gone on a nice weekend away.

It's really deeply programmed - they just can't think holistically about the needs of a family, and then think of them as being anything to do with a man, himself. They just can't do it. In their mind, being at home with a child is just being at home with a child, and a woman is someone who tidies, does laundry, buys food, cooks it, deals with leftovers, takes things out of the freezer in time, insures things, maintains friendly relationships with the neighbours, talks to the school, sorts out school uniform, creates and implements a bedtime routine, changes sheets, sorts out outgrown clothes, arranges children's parties... etc etc etc. It's endless. It would be as mad to expect some men to do any one of those things, just because he is at home with a child, as it would be to expect your neighbour to come over and make something out of your left over risotto for your dinner, just because she happens to be at home.

The thing with trial runs is that anyone can do a job temporarily. For him it might be a nice little change from work - a novelty. The real test is when you do something day in and day out for years. So be careful of thinking that a trial will disabuse him of the notion that this is a good idea. He is likely to have a cracking time.

I think you have to judge by what you know of him now.

yes Aderyn

Totally agree AntiGrinch. I have been biting my tongue reading this thread as I agree that in my experience men are half arsed about "home" stuff. I know there are great ones who love housework and remembering about school trips and meal planning etc but lets face it most don't. My DH is loving and involved with our children but when I leave them (regularly) for long weekends etc he does the bare minimum, mainly buys foot out on the hoof spending a fortune cause he doesn't think to plan, bedtime goes out the window, no laundry etc is done. Then he expects huge praise cause "most dads" don't look after their kids on their own.

In an ideal world my DH would be a SAHP and I'd be happy to work full time BUT that is cause I know how hard full time SAHP life is and how much you have to put in to it for the sake of your kids. But there is no way I'd be wanting to come home to make tea, do the washing, bedtime etc cause he'd had an exhausting day with the kids.