To be enraged at DH's suggestion that he gives up work to become S/WAHF

[Millipede170]

I'm nearing the end of my mat leave with our first child. It's been harder than I thought it would be, difficult birth, some PND, have felt unsupported by my DH (long story, detail prob not relevant, but he's not a hands-on father so far). But I adore my son and will miss him terribly when I go back to work, and wish I didn't have to. We were discussing my return to work the other day, our DS going into childcare etc, when DH pipes up that he could quit his job and become a full-time Dad. Just like that. Because he said his salary is capped whereas my career has more legs (true, currently, but needn't always be the case).

It was like taking a bullet. I think because

1. he has absolutely no appreciation of how hard it is looking after a baby 24hrs a day (I have done both days and nights pretty much for the past year as I've been bf'ing and he's been working) and it just sounded so flippant - like yeah, I could do what you do no problem
   
2. I feel like I've done the really shit/hard bits, carrying DS, childbirth (breech), the newborn sleepless months, stuck in the house settling DS endlessly for naps etc. And now here comes more of the interactive 'fun' phase (not saying it isn't hard work mind you) and I get to go back to work and earn the money too 🤔
   
   Am I U to feel that way?

[MajesticWhine]

Well said Millipede.

[Millipede170]

I was broken and I did push him out as a result, and we did have a terrible relationship partly because I just had no energy for warmth, tolerance, openness, experimentation.

Yes. I see this happening, and I don't want to go further down that road.

Thank you all again for your insights and encouragement! I feel (with some trepidation) like I have a starting place now.

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

You are fucking brilliant Millipede!

[NotYoda]

Good.

I hope he's amenable to discussions about this.

[Bansteadmum]

You could go out regularly, every week, and also stop the "normal service": his DC, his job to parent, just as much as yours.

[CocoaLeaves]

let's face it, if he doesn't step up and you do split in the current set up, he will need to find his strengths as a father if he wants to exercise contact. And at present, he would be struggling with that. A child has the right to a relationship with both parents but both parents have responsibilities, not just one.

[AntiGrinch]

Sounds brilliant, Millipede. you sound very wise and clued up.

I particularly admire this insight:

"to do with the mounting resentment of the past 10 months. The less he's participated, the more I've stewed, and I think I've been shutting him out in my irritation. A case of "You're rubbish, I can do this all without you (and a good job too)" and then getting even more cross and confused that he doesn't do more. "

If you're going to break that dynamic, well done. My ex was extremely resistant to discussions about how he could do more and how broken I was, but even still, I regret not trying harder to push through that resistance, because I was broken and I did push him out as a result, and we did have a terrible relationship partly because I just had no energy for warmth, tolerance, openness, experimentation. Somehow, even if against his will, and for his own good, you must give him what he needs, not what he wants, or you're over - and that means he has to step up to a point where you can respect him; and the hard part, somehow you need to feel that he respects you (no idea how to get a man to respect you when he doesn't already, but I know I failed on that and it was partly to do with enabling him living in a cloud cuckoo land where he was an equal partner and I was just a feeble person who found easy things too hard - because the fights from my attempts to change that perception were too hard)

I really really think that marriages between two people sometimes really need to be broken open and exposed to other influences. I think that the privacy of a couple in a nuclear family can be very dangerous because once a man has lost respect for you, who can make him see you with different eyes?

Anyway, rambling now. you sound great. Good luck

[Aderyn2016]

I think that's a good plan. When I had my first ds, I was very reluctant to let dh do anything - tbh I didn't trust him to do it as well as I could. That was a mistake for two reasons 1) because he could do it but he had to learn how, just as I had and 2) because I put myself in a position of having to do everything myself, which is exhausting.

You need and are entitled to support. You didn't make this baby all on your own and you shouldn't be solely responsible. You have to start insisting that he pulls his weight because your child needs a decent father and you need a partner, not a h who makes your life harder.
Remind yourself that you are entitled to these things - you have to get out of the habit of feeling grateful for any little thing he does. He should be doing his share.

[Millipede170]

Oh. And then we need to negotiate a more equal footing in the household when I go back to work. I cannot do it all. And it will be a good example to our son, too.

[Millipede170]

Thank you so so much, this is such a helpful conversation. I am still rocked by the consideration that DH would likely win custody if we were to split, I had never even thought about that and it's hideous.

Unfortunately I am in agreement with antigrinch, aderyn, mollyblack and rakingup and I think a short trial might be counterproductive; anyone can hold the fort for a couple of days and think ta-dah, I can 'do' childcare. As it stands, when I say I need a break from DS, he will babysit for half an hour while I have a shower and blow dry my hair (rock n roll) and it's very much on the understanding that normal service will resume once I've pulled myself together (and then I feel like I need to fall over myself in thanks which is weird). But it's the longer term investment stuff that would suffer, like you say, the child development, socialisation etc. I would want him to parent, not to babysit while I'm out at work (and then coming home to run the household as well).

What I've realised is that my strong reaction (yes, I really did feel 'enraged') is to do with the mounting resentment of the past 10 months. The less he's participated, the more I've stewed, and I think I've been shutting him out in my irritation. A case of "You're rubbish, I can do this all without you (and a good job too)" and then getting even more cross and confused that he doesn't do more.

I think I need to shelve the SAHF thing - it doesn't sit well with me on any level and leaves me vulnerable. But I must allow him/insist that he starts to parent his son in whatever way he can. Not my idea of how it should be done, but by allowing him to find his strengths as a father. The two of them need to find their way together. I will plan an escape for a day and a night, and they will have to muddle through.

[RakingUpBadMemories]

If he wants to do the childcare, he needs to do the childcare, including thinking about the child's health, development, socialisation, speech, fine motor development through play, good diet, good routine, clean teeth, clean clothes, safe environment and all the rest of the background stuff that sort of goes without saying.

Keeping a child alive for a trial weekend doesn't cut the mustard.

[mollyblack]

*buys food

[mollyblack]

Totally agree AntiGrinch. I have been biting my tongue reading this thread as I agree that in my experience men are half arsed about "home" stuff. I know there are great ones who love housework and remembering about school trips and meal planning etc but lets face it most don't. My DH is loving and involved with our children but when I leave them (regularly) for long weekends etc he does the bare minimum, mainly buys foot out on the hoof spending a fortune cause he doesn't think to plan, bedtime goes out the window, no laundry etc is done. Then he expects huge praise cause "most dads" don't look after their kids on their own.

In an ideal world my DH would be a SAHP and I'd be happy to work full time BUT that is cause I know how hard full time SAHP life is and how much you have to put in to it for the sake of your kids. But there is no way I'd be wanting to come home to make tea, do the washing, bedtime etc cause he'd had an exhausting day with the kids.

[NotYoda]

yes Aderyn

[Aderyn2016]

The thing with trial runs is that anyone can do a job temporarily. For him it might be a nice little change from work - a novelty. The real test is when you do something day in and day out for years. So be careful of thinking that a trial will disabuse him of the notion that this is a good idea. He is likely to have a cracking time.

I think you have to judge by what you know of him now.

[AntiGrinch]

I don't think the long weekend thing works for guys like this. He will see it as an anomaly, because in his mind he is quite sure that it is reasonable that his wife will get home every day, tidy up, make the grown ups dinner and put things in the fridge for the children tomorrow. The fact that he isn't managing to do all these things as he goes along will be her fault because she has gone on a nice weekend away.

It's really deeply programmed - they just can't think holistically about the needs of a family, and then think of them as being anything to do with a man, himself. They just can't do it. In their mind, being at home with a child is just being at home with a child, and a woman is someone who tidies, does laundry, buys food, cooks it, deals with leftovers, takes things out of the freezer in time, insures things, maintains friendly relationships with the neighbours, talks to the school, sorts out school uniform, creates and implements a bedtime routine, changes sheets, sorts out outgrown clothes, arranges children's parties... etc etc etc. It's endless. It would be as mad to expect some men to do any one of those things, just because he is at home with a child, as it would be to expect your neighbour to come over and make something out of your left over risotto for your dinner, just because she happens to be at home.

[Falafelfun]

Maybe have a nice long weekend away without either? Friday to Monday

[Graphista]

"STILL be working full time to support them and perhaps living in a bedsit"

Worse! Military single accommodation block!

[AHedgehogCanNeverBeBuggered]

Well said AntiGrinch.

[Bansteadmum]

Even if he were a great father/partner, which he's clearly not, it would not be U, for any reason, for you to be unwilling to agree to him ceasing paid work. SAHP model requires both partners' full agreement: if either doesn't want it, for any reason, both WoH makes sense.

[Bansteadmum]

I mean maintenance for the former spouse.

[Bansteadmum]

There are immediate changes you could make so that your H does a fairer amount of parenting, domestic work and so on.

Just say no way to his suggestion; and assume that you will both work.

Neither DH or I would want the other to be a SAHP, for example because of financial/economic risks, my wish not to be financially dependent ob a man, and pressure of being "sole breadwinner", so we both work, I went PT for a few years and now both work FT although I still do more of the parenting and he works longer hours.

The risks of losing residency of DC / paying maintenance are also not negligable for the WoHP.

[AntiGrinch]

My exP was talking about this at one time. He did actually stay off work for around 9 months when my second maternity leave ended and for various reasons to do with our circs. it wasn't an insane suggestion but it really bugged me that I was out of the house with a big job and a long commute and would come home to find everything just flung at me. At times, it seemed, almost saved up for me. He never made me, or saved me a plate of, a meal. I used to cry on the stairs in the evenings because I was tired and hungry and used to get straight off the train, go into bath time and bedtime, and spend ages settling dd2 again and again who was being a bugger with bedtime at the time. He would go downstairs and watch TV. It was fucking awful.

then he got a job. Later, he suggested dropping it or going full time and like the OP I just saw red. I couldn't believe he thought that his presence in the house was anything but a lazy irritant to me, and it was infuriating that he thought his version of doing the job was anything remotely equivalent to mine. I can't remember exactly how this conversation went but I didn't encourage him to do it and it didn't happen.

Now we are separated and I can't believe how close I got to a situation where I would have had to work like a bastard AND support him and my children in a house without me. We have shared care of the dcs, a house each, and no one pays maintenance to anyone. It is the best possible outcome.

I am writing all this not to hijack the thread but firstly, for full disclosure - yes I have a particular POV on this coloured by my experience; and secondly, because it is important to note in our very "yay dads! dads are great!" on mn that many or most dads are just not trained or socialised to do a job of caring for children and supporting their partners in the home as well as women are. I am not saying they can't in principle, or that they shouldn't. But honestly, realistically, they just don't, right now.

I think we have a narrative that is very encouraging towards them because we've taken the decision, on this board anyway, on some collective unconscious level, that right now the state of evolution that our society is in requires us to be very jolly and encouraging and uncritical (and actually rather patronising) to men, in an attempt to get them to do anything at all. Maybe it's part of a bigger project where their half arsed ness will actually get criticised and developed at some point, once they have begun to do anything at all. Maybe not - maybe women will carry the can forever.

However, theoretical ramblings aside, in this the OP is furious, and there is a reason for it, based on her own experience and instincts. She would do better to listen to this than to a bunch of optimistic pollyannas on the internet. Because if this goes tits up she will LOSE her children who will NOT be living with her and she will STILL be working full time to support them and perhaps living in a bedsit

[Slightlyperturbedowlagain]

And mainly because OPs DH actually may not like the reality once he has tried it.

[Aderyn2016]

Reading your further posts, I am wondering what exactly he does do.
You say he's shown zero interest in ds so far, isn't great at emotional support and hasn't even supported you financially during mat leave. Tbh, I think I'd rather have a childminder, who will at least be structuring the day around your child's needs.

It is all very well for posters to say it worked out well for them etc but they are comparing apples and oranges. Their husbands were interested, involved fathers.

The picture you are presenting here is of someone who isnt going to take this seriously and be respectful of the fact that it is work and requires effort. I think you are going to come home to a tip of a house and a baby whose basic needs have been met but nothing 'extra'. You will feel resentful and your family will have lost an income to facilitate this.

I would want to see a massive change in his attitude before I even gave this idea a second thought.