To be terrified about what will happen if the Gender Identity Bill is passed?

[TheWorldAccordingToToads]

I'm a nervous wreck right now

Will it replace sex as a protected characteristic? Does that mean that women will have no legal protection at all?

I'm scared .

Just to be clear, the bill proposes that Gender Identity replace Gender Reassignment as a protected characteristic. It is not proposed that it replace sex as a protected characteristic under the Equality Act which is a different section of the Equality Act.

Glossolalia that's what I'm trying to say! I don't want a man who identifies as a woman to be my therapist, I want a woman!

Oh FFS. Transwomen are not your enemy and no one's rights are being taken away. It's an ADDITION.

Get a grip, listen to what you just effectively said and stop being transphobic. The idea that anyone is "terrified" that someone now can't be discriminated against in law is frankly disgusting.

That's true alfagirl.

The problem is, that with gender reassignment being protected, it protects people undergoing or having undergone transition. Gender identity means anyone who says they're a woman is legally treated as one. It in effect undermines the protected category of sex.

But it still means a man could self ID his way into places where women are vulnerable even if it doesn't replace sex, no?

I asked a question on the trans sports thread, namely could a male sex offender with a criminal record transition to 'female' and in doing so, have their male crimes wiped from their crb history. I was utterly horrified to be told yes. I'm still hoping that it isn't true.

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT TRANS WOMEN! IT'S ABOUT GENDER SELF ID!

I knew it wouldn't be long before cries of "transphobia!" started though!

Once again I have nothing against transwomen! THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT THEM! YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING!

The problem I see is that I might be happy to have a man do a smear test for me. However say I wasn't happy or it was my first smear as a young girl and I wanted a woman. As gender will be protected I could still end up with a man but who says he is a woman. I've lost any choice in my care.

On a personal note I'm going thorough the menopause. I have specifically asked to see a female GP as I find it embarrassing. However in the future I won't have this choice.

Self identification will mean down loading a form from the Internet. That is it. Maria Miller is proposing that every single bit of criteria that is being used up to now is removed.

Sex discrimination will no longer be a thing as it is going to be replaced by gender identification. You will be able to be fired from your job for expressing milk for your baby because it is not based on your sex, because 'men' do that too. I.e. A transman who is legally a man, but biologically a woman. You cannot claim sex discrimination.

There is already a court case happening at the moment in Canada, a country that is at the forefront of transgendered rights. They have also approved a bill colloquially called 'look but don't touch' - to encourage men not to actually touch the women they are looking at in the locker room.

"If Governor Cooper's proposed bill for repealing HB2 becomes law, it will create a state-sanctioned 'Look But Don't Touch' policy in our bathrooms," Forest said in a written statement. "Heterosexual men will be able to access women's showers and bathrooms by simply posing as a transgender individual. They will be able to watch women and children shower, or shower next to them. As long as the man doesn't touch them, assault them or film them, no legal protection would be afforded the offended woman or child. Nothing."

There has been a lot of clamour in the last week or so in the media who are highlighting the problems of making the category 'woman' or 'man' a legal entity, based on gender identification.

The second reading of the bill was scheduled for Feb 24, but has been postponed to March 24.

It is hoped that the reason for the postponement is because they have taken this legislation issue to its logical conclusion and realised how it will be exploited.

The term 'woman' (and man) has to be a distinct legal term based on biology, not self identification.

The definition of woman is not 'a feeling in a man's head'.

The reason why the feminist boards were flagging this a year or so ago, when it was first proposed, is because they are well versed in gender and sexual politics and connected the dots a lot quicker than everyone else.

No that's not true turquatic

It's also not true that the GID bill is just an "addition" and that people that are worried about it are "disgusting" toconclude.

"It means an elderly frail person won't be allowed to request a carer of the same sex"

UTTER RUBBISH. I work in social care and this is perfectly legal now and will be then. Stop spreading misinformation in the service of your prejudice.

Yes Pepvixen that's my concern.

It's ridiculous that worrying about how this will effect women is being labelled transphobia! This thread was never about trans women in the first place! But thanks for derailing from women's issues again!

People fear what they don't understand

Most of MN is full of transphobia because they do not understand trans people

Think about sport too. Your teenage daughter is good at basketball, hockey, netball, soccer, whatever. She is on the school team with some of her friends. Under this legislation, a biologically male student would be able to declare that he is now female. He - being physically bigger, stronger and faster - would take your teen's place on the team. And you wouldn't be able to say anything about because he's growing his hair, painting his nails and calling himself Shirley.

Fair, isn't it?

This is deeply troubling. I have two DD'S. I don't know what to think. Some of the examples given above are terrifying.

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT TRANS WOMEN/TRANS GENDERED PEOPLE! IT'S ABOUT GENDER SELF ID! WHY ARE YOU IGNORING THAT!

It is frustrating that we cannot see exactly what will be proposed, will the detail only come out once it is too late to speak out?

There are so many questions, for example what would it say about a person that identifies as one gender half of the week and the other the other half of the week? I have seen some people say they switch back and forth several times a day.

Quentin.

ORLY. The language around here bloody disgusts me. But I guess I don't count because I know an actual transperson and dare to treat them as an individual. Shocking, I know.

This is worrying. I have a dc at a single sex school. What are the implications for single sex education?

I really don't think this is an issue. Firstly, hardly anyone would go through the effort of pretending to identify as a woman with the sole intent of attacking them. The majority of sex crimes are perpetrated by people known to the victim, not a random offender. Furthermore, most sex crimes are associated with power-play and dominance - I can't imagine someone whose sole intent is to exert his power over woman feeling particularly masculine or dominant whilst wearing a wig, lipstick, heels and a dress. I just don't see this scenario working

Secondly, I assume there will be some reasonable doubt if someone does not seem to be identifying as a woman in any sense other than saying 'I am a woman.' If a person is not adhering to any of the expected behaviours of a woman and then identifies as such, they're probably not going to be taken seriously and will not be given access to safe spaces.

toconclude, yes it will still be legal to request a female carer.

But that female carer might be a transwoman with a beard and penis who has made no effort to transition.

You still have the sex based right, but it is rendered meaningless by self-identification of gender identity.

I AM NOT TRANSPHOBIC! THIS IS NOT ABOUT TRANS WOMEN! DISAGREEING WITH GENDER SELF ID IS NOT TRANSPHOBIC! Show me where I have been transphobic, go on I dare you!

This is about gender self ID - you do know what self ID means, right?

Like in this example -edition.cnn.com/2017/02/27/us/texas-transgender-wrestler-trnd-hold/

Hey Elmo, I don't give a shit what the motives of the male person are, or why they believe themselves to have any characteristics in common with me, a female.
The fact is that they don't, and much as every woman is entitled to say NO to any man that invades personal space or crosses personal boundaries, we are also entitled to say no to every male (who calls himself a female) who does the same.

My dad or my brothers accidentally walking in on me getting changed would make me supremely uncomfortable, even with the unshakeable knowledge that they are not predators and mean me no harm. I would be distressed, and they would be distressed to have made me uncomfortable because any decent person who crosses another person's boundaries takes quicksmart action to reverse the distress as quickly as possible by exiting the situation.

Because I am female and I am entitled to exclude males from MY personal space. Regardless whether they feel to the very core of their being that they are the same 'gender' as me - they categorically are not.

I am not the same sex or gender as a transwoman and they are not the same sex or gender as me.