A Tory Chancellor has just abandoned the self-employed

[longfingernails]

Hammond has raised class 4 NICs and cut the dividend allowance. AIBU to believe this is unacceptable. We need to be a low tax capitalist country which does everything to encourage entrepreneurs, whose animal spirits aren't dampened by high job taxes.

We should instead cut NI for all employers/employees. An easy initial cost saving is cutting international aid. We can also improve efficiency in public services through greater private provision, reducing the benefits cap, etc.

Tories break pledge shocker...

No sick pay. No pension. No holiday pay.

Sick pay and holiday pay are taxable income and self-employed people can contribute to pensions. In other words, self-employed people can self-fund all these benefits out of their income. For purposes of comparing situation with an employee, the true self-employed income is what is left over after funding all of the above.

If you compare yourself with the an employee who has the same take-home (but those "benefits" on top) then you are comparing yourself with someone who is, essentially, higher paid. So the comparison is meaningless.

The test that Philip Hammond has failed today is a very simple one: whose side are you on?

In response to the pp who mentioned the tax advantages that sole business directors seem to have must be lost on me.
My late husband was such, he had to pay corporation tax on the income into the company and then tax on the salary and dividends he took from the company - when it all balanced out I don't see how he was paying less tax than when he was employed (another forced into this work pattern due to cuts in the public sector and not by choice btw)

Studying Wow a Socratic argument there that's bound to turn people's opinion...

The self employed shouldn't pay the same levels of NI as PAYE employees for the simple reason that they don't get the same benefits for it.

I was horrified to hear that SMP is not provided for anyone who is self employed so are they going to reverse this now the rates are equalised? It would only be fair but I imagine it could be open to a lot of abuse.

Well Longfingernails he could have put NI contributions up to 25% for the Self- Employed and with the state of Corbyn and Labour still not lose their vote !

The self employed are not going to vote for 'Comrade' Corby are they.

Can you imagine what 'Mcade' might have done if he was Chancellor !

Lilybolero why are you self employed? genuine question.

StickyMouse - there is no employment in the area I work in, everything is self employed, without being more specific, there are literally no jobs, and everything is freelance/S-E.

They should make the big corporations pay their fucking tax instead of raising tax for the self-employed. Make Starbucks pay instead of plumbers taxi drivers etc.

After many years of Paye I'm now self employed because in the industry I work in there's no real choice other than to be freelance. It's very competitive and can be stressful trying to make enough to make ends meet. I work hard, but if I have time off I don't get paid and I don't get any sick pay. However I love the freedom and flexibility. But to say that I should pay the same NI isn't fair as I don't get the same benefits.

I get a bit fed up of people implying that those of us who are self employed don't declare all our income and dodge tax. Certainly some do, but I'm not brace enough!

I'm self employed & not a fucking Tory.

DJbaggy No, I have a private pension scheme instead. That's one of the the downside of being self-employed. But there are numerous upsides. In fact, I wouldn't have been able to continue working, if I was employed by someone else, when I suddenly became a lone parent.

I'm no fucking Tory either

Paid up member of the Labour Party actually.

What baffles me most is why anyone would consider the Tories principled enough to leave any elements of society other than themselves "immune" to attack.

The self-employed are risk takers. They are natural Tories.
This self-employed risk taker most certainly is not Tory - and I'm not getting pushed towards UKIP either!
I fell into self-employment because it's fucking hard being employed when you are disabled and have caring responsibilities.
I don't want to see foreign aid cut or the benefits cap lowered, I want to see more equality.

Self employed can get sickness benefit or ESA as its now called

It's far easier to pick on the small and largely voiceless than to tax the corporations who might threaten to take their jobs provision elsewhere. So we all, employed/self employed/ unemployed get to have less whilst the bankers/hedge funders and huge corporations get to have more. If the government can get us fighting amongst ourselves, we won't solidify into a force for genuine change thereby allowing them to keep selling us more cheaply.

Meh
Self employed been mugging us all off for years declaring £10k per year driving lambos. Time they paid their fair share.

Happyandhungry I don't know whether you're trying to be provocative or just being offensive. But - in my case anyway - you couldn't be further from the truth.

We can also improve efficiency in public services through greater private provision

What a load of utter shite.

And don't call me a Tory. A Tory is an odious shitehawk with no regard for anybody and its only interest is in stealing as much from the state to line its pockets with our public services.

The self-employed are risk takers. They are self-reliant. They are natural Tories.

Funnily enough the majority of self employed I know are actually through and through Labour voters.

Me too Piglet.
And they don't agree that we need to be a low tax capitalist country which does everything to encourage entrepreneurs (animal spirited or otherwise) and bugger the rest.

The self employed are more likely to be those exploited by the gig economy rather than company directors driving lambos and celebrating their juicy tax breaks. Most self employed people I know are women who barely make ends meet and don't enjoy the perks that permanent employees do. But with so few part time or flexible jobs around it's the only option for some.

Dh is a bit of a tory but saying he will move to UKIP is fucking rude

I may have to take that as a personal attack

happy

Ok yeah

Some self employed might be able to manage that...not many