A Tory Chancellor has just abandoned the self-employed

[longfingernails]

Hammond has raised class 4 NICs and cut the dividend allowance. AIBU to believe this is unacceptable. We need to be a low tax capitalist country which does everything to encourage entrepreneurs, whose animal spirits aren't dampened by high job taxes.

We should instead cut NI for all employers/employees. An easy initial cost saving is cutting international aid. We can also improve efficiency in public services through greater private provision, reducing the benefits cap, etc.

Sometimes the self employed are entrepreneurs and sometimes they just register as self employed for tax breaks but essentially work for a company i.e. Management consultant. In that case I am quite ok for them to pay the same level of NI as those of us who are employed through a company. They will now qualify for the new state pension and some benefits so surely it is fair they contribute to public services as the rest of us have to. A number of people register as self employed but effectively work for large private or public corporations so they can offset their expenses like car, energy and phone bills etc etc off their profit to reduce tax liability.

Oh bless. Have the Tories run out of people to punish and had to start on their 'own'?

self-employed and incorporation cuts your taxes a lot anyway. i don't see the issue with paying the same rates as everyone else.

PAYE is the biggest scam ever, in the sense that the money is taken away at source. With self-employment you at least get the opportunity to massage the numbers to reduce your bill.

With self-employment you at least get the opportunity to massage the numbers to reduce your bill

You mean, ensure that all business expenses that you use are taken off your income before tax surely...

An easy initial cost saving is cutting international aid

Or maybe defence?

Nuclear weapons?

I'm self employed, and this will affect me. Mind you, as DH pointed out to me, pretty much every Budget since 2008 has hit me. I'm a magnet for bad Budgets!

I don't actually mind this one, although it will cost me a quite a chunk of income, as I think that we need higher NI contributions.

The reality, however, is that I won't have any spare money to give to the endless charity requests from friends. And we'll probably end up bumping up our charges to clients in the long term to increase our profit.

Self employed often find it hard to acces sick pay or JSA when they need it because they don't pay enough stamp at the moment. I think it's right they pay the same for the same wage as employed (given they can get tax free/breaks whatever on additional self employed costs) then at least they can claim benefits should they need them.

Now is not the time to be cutting the defence budget!!!

Somerville but you dont have a company pension scheme.

I think I'll go back to regular employment rather than being self employed now.

Not because if the change to NIC or dividends. But because you just said that the self employed are 'natural tories'. Don't think I've ever been so insulted in my life.

"You mean, ensure that all business expenses that you use are taken off your income before tax surely..."

Yes, you can't do that with PAYE

An easy initial cost saving is cutting international aid

well you'd think. Except we need to be nice to the rest of the world now. Remember the Big Visit to India a few months back ?

Don't think I've ever been so insulted in my life

I'm a sole trader so don't benefit from most of the enhanced opportunities of a director of my own limited company.

I don't mind paying a bit extra NI.

I did laugh at some of these posts making out being self employed is some how a joyous thing to be, free from the cares of employment. It must be fucking awful for you poor buggers with your job security; enhanced rights and benefits like paid holidays, statutory maternity pay, statutory sick and redundancy and employer pensions

Or that we're all greedy despots or Tory lovers.

Ime self employed people just like employed people covers a vast spectrum of people.

Oh, and I'm quite happy to keep coughing up for the welfare state and international aid thank you very much.

I had a self employed electrician round the other day to do a small job, he only wanted cash. Same for the tiler who did the bathroom - said he didn't 'do' cheques. That was a much bigger job. A lot of these tradespeople ( not all) are tax evading in one way or another.

Self employed labour voter here. Would rather they had targeted big business but they were never going to do that .....

movingonup - there are a lot of things that I don't like about being self employed. but on balance would prefer to be working for myself running my own business, making my own decisions than for Local Govt which I did before this for many years.

I could have had a huge pension from my local authority job, lots of paid holiday, the ability to switch off from the job at 5pm and all sorts of other benefits.

however, nothing beats the feeling of securing that first contract (or subsequent big contracts) giving your staff a bonus for a job well done and also the flexibility to work when I want (broadly speaking) I do have to live and breathe my job but honestly wish I had done it years ago.

self employed - we are a mixed bunch just like every other grouping in society.

babyroobs - if you feel that they are evading taxes then report them. only way this abuse will stop.

All the tradespeople I have used recently have wanted a bank transfer because it costs them to bank cheques.

I don't know what evidence there is that a lot of tradespeople are evading tax. Last time I checked cash was still legal tender...

You're not very observant, are you? The Tories haven't been the party of the self-employed or small businesses for a long time. They represent the interests of big business.
As for your comments about cutting aid or benefits, I'm glad you're not representative of the self-employed people I know. They support our welfare state and respect our international commitments. You can't colonise half the world, ransack its resources and then bitch about paying a tiny percent in aid to try to fix the problems you created.

I like being self employed too but pretending it's some sort of utopia and some posters are suggesting is just silly. It has pros and cons like everything else in this life.

I think the british economy could have done without the risk takers tbh.

Starting dozens of businesses and letting the majority go bust doesn't sound like 'animal spirit' to me, more like bullshit.

Mummy - It's a tricky one isn't it. At the end of the day they are a small business and you don't want to get people into trouble. Even the dog groomer asks for a cheque to be made out to her name rather than the business name which always seems a bit fishy too !! I suppose they are just people trying to get by the same as all of us.

I am self employed by choice and I think that my Animal Spirit will cope with this small increase, which I will possibly get back in my state pension anyway one day

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut I admire any self employed person. There are many, many bitter mums here.