A Tory Chancellor has just abandoned the self-employed

[longfingernails]

Hammond has raised class 4 NICs and cut the dividend allowance. AIBU to believe this is unacceptable. We need to be a low tax capitalist country which does everything to encourage entrepreneurs, whose animal spirits aren't dampened by high job taxes.

We should instead cut NI for all employers/employees. An easy initial cost saving is cutting international aid. We can also improve efficiency in public services through greater private provision, reducing the benefits cap, etc.

I think that is fine if that is what they want to do - my issue would be to do with holiday is meant to be time to recover and refresh...

My main concern with Self employed NI is that the SE are not entitled to the same benefits as employed - no ssp for instance, currently retirement is 75 for se and these were the compromises for keeping NI low - change this and there is a case to argue that these should be equalised as well. Shortsightedly they are not looking at the longer term costs again

I know some NHS consultants get extra money by doing private work during their annual leave - so they get paid for annual leave AND get paid for doing private work

You are not the only one, it gets denied on here though.

just double checked and looks like pension has somewhat equalised with new flat rate pension which is always good - but the point about ssp and other such pyts like maternity still stands

Most will just pass on the cost to their clients. No one wins.

amispartacus I get where you are coming from regarding earning say £2000 per month, doing the 11/12 thing and paying yourself holiday pay. The trouble with that is if you only get paid a couple of hundred a week, and all of it goes straight out again on food, petrol, saving for household bills etc it isn't all that easy to earmark any of it for high days and holidays.

Your uber driver and handy app cleaner will be passing no costs to clients, you can be sure of that. Your average self employed accountant may well be able to pass £300 on over the year but this is a white van man tax which hits the lower paid self employed most.

The trouble with that is if you only get paid a couple of hundred a week, and all of it goes straight out again on food, petrol, saving for household bills etc it isn't all that easy to earmark any of it for high days and holidays

Imagine then you are on a job that pays more than a couple of hundred a week but you don't get paid holidays. Then you would still not be able to take holidays as you couldn't afford to because you don't get paid holidays.

Or you were on a job that paid less than a couple of hundred a week but you got paid holidays. You'd have the day off but you couldn't do anything.

Would you rather have a job that you took home £150 a week but you got paid holidays?

Or a job that took home £250 a week but you didn't get paid holidays (but you could have unpaid leave)

Or be self employed and take home £200 a week and you could work out the holidays yourself?

The sick pay is an issue though - you can't budget for the unexpected, and most self employed people I know have to take out insurance in case of illness.

Likewise, if you are employed, you are protected from sudden redundancy - there is a legal timeframe, through consultation, to decision of redundancy, and then redundancy pay. If you're self employed the work can dry up tomorrow.

The sick pay is an issue though - you can't budget for the unexpected, and most self employed people I know have to take out insurance in case of illness

That's so true - and I can't budget for sick pay as it's too expensive

Well, I have been completely clobbered by a family member being very ill and having to care for her. afaik there is no insurance for that. Otherwise, I'm more gutted by changes to VAT flat-rate than NICs, the government hasn't even told VAT payers it's happening even though it comes in in two weeks, I only found out about it via a newspaper article

Yes, they've certainly sneaked in the VAT changes

Just to be fair on the state the VAT changes were announced ages ago when I first read about them (not that I qualified for flat rate anyway) and were not first announced in the budget.

Yes, but though the changes were announced ages ago, the treasury still hasn't informed VAT registered people even though they're implemented in two weeks. A lot of people will be caught out as they haven't received much publicity

amispartacus I don't need to imagine what it's like to be self-employed and on a low income. I already know what it's like.

Hooray for the Tory backbenchers who have prompted a highly deserved u-turn. If money needs to be found, it can be found by cutting international aid or welfare, not by raising taxes on the self-employed.

But it still speaks volumes that Hammond and May agreed to this dog's dinner in the first place. Despite initial appearances, he has shown himself to be a dripping wet, and should be replaced by someone with sound instincts. Priti Patel or Chris Grayling would be good in the role.

Yeah, let's keep punishing the most vulnerable in society instead.

On what planet would Priti Patel or Chris Grayling be a good choice for anything?

As a self employed business owner I hope this u turn won't screw my severely disabled son even more than he's already been screwed by this bunch of barstards in power.

Long, the trouble over it is supposedly because of those who want to do Hammond down (he is rather a useful voice of reason on Brexit which a good few Brexiters in the Tory party would like to undermine) but we shall see....

The bigger review on the self employed is going ahead. The change for those who run companies is proceeding too which does not affect sole traders. The review might make private companies who use contractors take more on as direct employees - there is a similar change going ahead in the pu blic sector which has led to a good few contractors therefore refusing public sector work.

Welfare has already been cut. It was one of the first casualties of 'austerity'.

Yes but local govt cuts are having a disproportionate impact on the most vulnerable.

Well, I hope the government don't think I am letting them off the hook because of this, because the NICs thing didn't particularly bother me.

As I said, I'm still furious about flat-rate VAT and also about quarterly accounting, which is on the horizon. Furious. I will not forget,

This would have affected my family. Self employed, fairly low wages. We were happy to pay it for social care.

Incidentally, I have heard this is a bit of a publicity con. Deliberate U turns planned in to make the PM look good.

Oh god yes quarterly accounting is a nightmare

Great idea! Reduce poverty and make things more equal by cutting benefits!

If you think "there's no money left" I suggest you read Ann Pettifor who argues that there is.