To wonder how males are allowed to compete and win in female sports

[Bambambini]

NZ weight lifter Tracey Lebrechts has had her nationsl records broken and her place in the National team taken by a male Laurel Hubbard - previously Gavin. How is this fair and just why is this allowed?

www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/other/nz-weightlifting-body-stands-decision-let-first-transgender-weightlifter-compete

Quentin But I don't think a female sign on a bathroom door ever stopped a male predator from going in and hurting someone. And rape and sexual assault is far more likely to be someone you know than a stranger in a public bathroom.

Anyway, I digress. On the rugby thing, I believe that in youth rugby in New Zealand, kids teams are organised by weight rather than age because they have found that to be much safer (basically the problem was that people of Samoan type heritage get much bigger much younger).

Surely, at a bare minimum, women deserve similar safeguards to prevent them being injured by physically bigger and stronger men?

MsGameandWatch:

Thank you. I didn't want to join the debate. I wanted to express a view. That was then pounced on by you and others, who clearly can't handle a dissenting opinion. Happy not to post further, but will respond to replies as usual.

You haven't offered a dissenting opinion though, you've not addressed the debate or subject of the thread at all, just tried to shut down the debate. Very bad form.

Trifle

Your first post:

oh not this again

Your second:

I am not bored. I am flabbergasted by the number of people prepared to cast a flimsy veil over their bigotry by posting goady shite like this.

Your first post was nothing but goady and your second was to name call.
The only responses you had were to ask if you were bored and why bother posting if you didnt have an opinion.
I would not call that pounced on.

I would call you goady though.

multiple posts on the thread demonstrate, to me, hatred of trans people

WHERE?

Come on trifle you are an adult own your posts. Show us where these mulitple trans hate posts are?

Or maybe you can't and instead are attempting in a very pathetic manner to make this thread all about you.

The face of womens sport is changing and it has a 5'o clock shadow

Why is mens sport not changing?
Why is it that yet again women need to move over and make room when it will ultimately lead to the loss of female sporting achievements.

It is interesting how the world turns. Dora Ratjen was a man who seems to have genuinely lived as a woman and broke the womens high jump record in 1939. When she was revealed as a woman she was disgraced and her titles and records removed. Wonder if she now has a case to have them reinstated?

tinkly there is a model in crime prevention called "routine activity theory"
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Routine_activity_theory
It suggests that crime happens when three things are in place: an offender, a suitable victim (can be human or object) and lack of a capable guardian. This is why CCTV is employed in high crime areas, and police patrols - because they provide that "capable guardian" function. Studies have shown even printing a picture of eyes and putting it in high crime areas (like shops with shoplifting) will reduce crime as it gives the subconscious impression of a capable guardian.
At the moment the fact that males are not allowed in women only spaces (all spaces not just toilets) facilitates the capable guardian - because anyone can challenge a male trying to enter the space and so he feels unsafe to enter if he's there to commit crime.
If the law changes that removes the "capable guardian" effect as no one can challenge the male who's trying to gain entry- because he's entitled to be there. And that facilitates crime.

BevGoldbergsSister:

I am not going to go through it post by post. I have explained my point of view as far as I wish to, including explaining the types of posts I object to. You can either see what I mean by reading them yourself, or you can't. I doubt I will be able to change your mind by showing you what is in front of your nose.

Honestly? I wish you'd just get off the thread. I have no wish whatsoever to hear anything from you.

Personally I don't think you can be particularly well informed on these issues and probably know you have nothing much to offer apart from the deeply simplistic "you're all transphobic" and that's why you're not offering an opinion.

SookiesSocks: Because your rudeness is a real incentive to trawl through the thread picking stuff out for you

No. You can see what I see, or not. I don't care that much for your agreement.

Just admit it Trifle you wont because you cant. No such posts exsist on this thread and if they did mnhq would delete them.

You have zero credibility and that devalues any opinion you may have had.
I am sorry for you.

MsGameandWatch:

You aren't the thread police, Game. I have already said I will post if I want to. Please feel free to ignore me.

Quentin We are changing our public spaces though, are we not. Schools and universities and many offices nowadays tend to have loos that are open to everyone, often just cubicles from a central foyer. In the same way as we have made changes to our environment to accommodate disabled people, perhaps we will need to do the same for trans people. I imagine it will make loos safer for everyone.

Toilets with floor to ceiling walls and a wash basin inside are imo perfect for all sexes. However that is not the plan as far as i am aware.

It's hard to ignore someone flailing around making untrue accusations and slurs but you are of course right that you're best ignored.

Yes fine. But the crime prevention aspect is not just about loos. It's presented that way because that isn't particularly controversial (although I doubt many places have money to retrofit all facilities to gender neutral, as they can't even put in disability access). The access principle applies to everything. Communal gym changing rooms. Shop changing roomd. Women only sessions in the sauna/spa. Refuges. Hospital wards. Prisons.
Anyway this is a derail because the crime thing isn't what's being discussed. I was just trying to explain why I don't believe relying on the law is enough.

BevGoldbergsSister: But you don't have to answer me. Your implication is that my behaviour is 'male', which I find to be a bit of a weird insinuation. But anyway, so what? I am not forcing you to engage with me. Just ignore me if you don't like what I said.

MsGameandWatch:

Do you remember your thread last week when you refused to answer my question about your DD? Did I throw a hissy fit? No. I respected the fact that you had said what you wanted to say to me and I stopped posting. It's not hard.

Yes still no specific quotes to back up your allegations then trifle and the only goady posts are yours really.

Doyouwantabrew: I said a while ago, quite clearly, that I had no intention of specifying posts. Since then a number of people have been unable to let that drop. That is not me being goady, is it? It's them/you.

I disagre about loos.

I don't want men or trans women in a toilet that I might need to access sanitary wear and I would not feel safe in a loo with a strange man. I don't see why my feelings should be eroded to accommodate others. I say eroded as I had that right and now it seems to be disappearing.

I also strongly feel disabled access toilets should be maie/female too.