AIBU with my Lodger?

[Nic8880]

Evening,

I bought a house in September and decided getting a lodger for around 1 year in could be a good idea to help me save for some home improvements. A friend from work stated her friend was looking for somewhere to live, so literally not long after I moved in, she followed.

We are both single and 30. We work full time normal hours. At first, we got on extremely well; I couldn't believe my luck. We began socialising after work sometimes too. She is very neat and tidy.

Sadly, things went downhill quickly and, naively, she paid me no deposit and I didn't set many ground rules to start with which probably hasn't helped.

A few months ago I couldn't help but notice she had COVERED her walls with paintings and pictures one weekend! I was really upset and told her to ask me to ask permission before putting things up in future. I started noticing little comments such as her "contemplating" painting the kitchen..! To which I said no. She has replaced one or two things in the house which really she should have told me and asked me to do, such as light bulbs and light fixtures all around the house. she has also assembled furniture I've bought for the house before I've had the chance. To some it may seem crazy I'm complaining but I feel she is treading on my toes.

More recently, she has been having 3-4 family members at a time to stay for weekends without asking me first. When I come home from work most evenings, she is already home and running between cooking her dinner and watching her favourite tv programmes and films. she never asks me what I want to watch or if I mind, and so most nights I find myself going up to my room to watch things on my iPad. She has made comments about her going away for an upcoming weekend and about how relieved I must be to be able to "watch what I want" all weekend!? This would be a strange comment (although a lot less stranger) even if I, as her landlady, had made that comment to her.

She has also opened a lot of mail addressed to "the occupier" or "homeowner" when she has come in from work, and she always parks on my drive, leaving me to park on the road.

I could go on, and on, and on. She refers to my house as "ours" and even in front of mutual friends I've heard her call the house hers (as in "mine")!!! She, unsurprisingly, has not lived with a live in landlady before. She seems very deluded and is almost in the mindset she owns the house? Having said that, even as the home owner id never dream of binge watching things on tv, seemingly oblivious to her needs and wants.

This whole issue is causing a lot of tension. I'm enjoying the money and feel kind of pressured into keeping her since we now have a lot of mutual friends (one of whom is my work colleague), however when I tell her/ask her not to do something, she absolutely cannot take it and either goes off in a strop or ignores me. I asked if she could stop wearing her muddy boots in the house last week and she never responded to my request and went and shut herself in her room all night. I also once asked if she wouldn't mind asking before putting the heating on (it's on a timer but she puts it on "on" if she gets cold), as she just pays me a set amount of rent each month whilst I pay the bills, and she just said "yep" and again took herself off to her room.

As her responses to me are quite dramatic, mumsnet - am I being unreasonable here? Any pearls of wisdom?

Bloody hell, yet another thread where someone is complaining about someone doing outlandish things, with one MASSIVE step missed out of their tale.....when she watches all her shows, why do you say nothing? When she parks on your drive, when she refers to the house as hers, when she has family to stay...don't tell MUMSNET about it, tell HER!

Honestly, stop being so wet. If you lie down on the ground and stamp doormat on your face, don't complain when people walk all over you!

You are being a bit unreasonable. She pays to live there, I'm assuming that covers the right to heating if it's cold, and somewhere to park, etc. She could possibly she that by replacing things like lightbulbs she is actually being a considerate and helpful lodger? After all, why wait for someone else to do it when you can fix it quicker?
The monopolising of the kitchen etc and numerous guests is unreasonable, but tbh you kind of brought it upon yourself by not stating rules/boundaries at the start. If you 'need' her to pay her money for the next few months be more assertive and suck up the rest.

She pays to live there, I'm assuming that covers the right to heating if it's cold, and somewhere to park, etc

It doesn't cover unlimited heating, don't be ridiculous. And unless she pays extra for parking, it doesn't include the space on the driveway.

I think many people here don't understand what lodging actually is. This is not a houseshare, it is a homeowner and a lodger.

And to correct a pp, no it is not the lodgers house. It is her home, it is not her house. Big difference.

Ridiculous?? Is OP now saying she wants it on full time? No. Get over yourself.
Did OP point out the parking situation at the start? Or before coming on here to complain? No. Get back in your box.

Fuck, I'm glad I never lodged with some of you. Obviously it would be nice if she just paid you each month and stayed in the understairs cupboard but parking on the driveway, using communal areas and putting on the heating are normal. As is putting up posters in your bedroom (you can charge her for any damage). She shouldn't have to replace bulbs, that's your job.

Next time you get a lodger be clear on how badly you intend to treat them the rules, to avoid misunderstandings.

I think you sound over the top and unsuited to living with someone in this kind of arrangement. It is her home, she pays rent.

Well said barbarianmum!

Been there -first friend lodger and her then (abusive) boyfriend would take over my home - let my cats out. She was shit but at least she paid (mostly) on time.

Second friend lodger - never really paid anything as she would just use all my stuff - she was a nurse who a patient accused of abuse so then she couldn't pay me at all whilst under investigation. She moved in to a house share so she could carry on doing drugs and I footed the bill (and dumped her stuff off with her 2 months later as she had no intention of picking it up.

oh she arranged to be my carer after major surgery and then decided she'd rather go home 2 hours later - hope she's not still a nurse for everyone elses sake.

Overall, I think YABU - a lot of the issues you've flagged up are either non-issues or are only issues because, due to the lack of ground rules/you speaking up at the time, things have escalated from minor annoyance to problem status.

I think there are a few points YANBU about, but they are lost in the myriad of non-issues.

Covering the walls - not ideal but you didn't say she couldn't so it's not unreasonable to think she'd be allowed to put a few bits up.

Replacing things - weird but why are you complaining about someone replacing light bulbs?! I'd love it if I had someone around who noticed there was a light bulb blown and instead of waiting for me to come home from work and telling me about it, they just went into the cupboard where we keep all the extra bulbs/batteries etc and just replaced it. If it's fixtures/fittings then it's weird she's replacing things but again you don't seem to have said not to or questioned why she did replace things when you noticed them. I'd want to be sure that she had not thrown them away and could be put back when she leaves but otherwise, as long as it wasn't ugly/offensive/unsuitable I wouldn't care.

Putting together flat packs - again, why would you complain about that? Unless you're into that kind of thing or it was something for your sole use or for your room why would you complain about someone dealing with the stress of flat pack? I still make my brother come round and do flatpack for me if my dad isn't here because I get so frustrated by it but he loves building things.

Cooking & watching TV before you're home - So what is she supposed to do, sit hungry in silence until you get home and have given permission to use the kitchen and choose what to watch? If you want to watch something, say so and start compromising on the TV schedule.

Complaining you have to go to your room - you made that choice because you refuse to speak up to your lodger, she has not caused this issue, you have.

Opening "occupier/homeowner" mail - 99% is junkmail, why do you care? If she was opening your personal mail, you'd have a point but she isn't.

Parking on the drive - you haven't said she can't so you can't complain that she does, especially if she's thinking that she's just parking in the drive as she's the first one home and it's empty, rather than because she has some "right" to it.

Referring to the house as "ours/mine" - Totally normal speech patterns ... I rented for years and still referred to the place I lived as mine/ours (if out with flatmates) "Want to come back to ours after this drink?" "Oh, I left that book at mine, I'll bring it next time,"

Heating - I'm 50/50 on this - I'd either ask her to check with you before turning it on over and above the timer settings or ask her to cover any increase in the heating bill ... so if it's regularly £50 and it goes up to £75 because she leaves the heating on then she needs to be contributing towards that £25 excess.

Painting any room - way over stepping her boundaries

Muddy boots - she needs to stop doing that as you have asked her not to and it is not unreasonable to expect an adult to know that she should take dirty shoes off at the door.

Multiple overnight guests - That's pretty excessive, especially if she hasn't at least informed you, if not asked permission. But again, after the first time, did you ask her not to/to ask permission first? If not you can't blame her for thinking it's okay if you haven't said so.

Isn't the whole point of being a homeowner means you have things for you to use and for your convenience without answering to anyone else.

If its a 1 car drive-- homeowner gets first dibs unless agreed otherwise.

You have to speak up for yourself though..

I can see this turning nasty when you serve notice...

None of these things sound that bad on their own, but it is clear that it isn't workingout for you.

I agree with others: give her notice and try to part on reasonable terms.

OP, you're correct. She really does think the house belongs to her as much as it belongs to you and with a mindset like that you're never going to resolve this so its time for her to go. She wants what you have and is determined to get it off someone else's back. She must have been a cuckoo in another life.

But other birds are wising up, evolving some seriously impressive tricks to spot the cuckoo eggs. Cuckoos are what's known as brood parasites, meaning they hide their eggs in the nests of other species. To avoid detection, the cuckoos have evolved so that their eggs replicate those of their preferred targets

melj, I couldn't agree more.

Then again, I find the attitude towards lodgers in the UK weird. Starting with the term 'lodger'. I've had friends live with me in a property that I owned; I just called them flatmates.

I can't imagine getting miffed because she changed a light globe or watched the tv. It's her home as well! (Permanent changes are overstepping, though.)

I think accusing her of fantasising about owning your house is a bit much. She probably just thinks of herself as house sharing rather than lodging. How does the rent you charge compare to the rent for a houses share? I've had friends charge their lodgers the going house share rate, and then expect them to stick yo their bedrooms, which is a bit unfair. I've lodged before, and virtually made myself invisible and silent, but I paid a fraction of the house share rent. When paying a house share rate I want to make myself at home.

This is just a little more than changing the odd lightbulb, she's changed permanent light fixtures and was even musing about painting the kitchen (as a lodger living in her landladies house!)

Op this lady is highly manipulative and knows exactly what she's doing, a couple of things you've mentioned sound a little stalkerish. Very concerning she opens your post. Can you be sure she hasn't looked at anything confidential?

She isn't your friend. You need to get her out, accept it's not going to be amicable and will probably cost you money.

Give her two months written notice for May today. I would then book annual leave for when she's due to move out and have a family member to stay that week for backup if needed. As don't be surprised if she tries to remove fixtures and fittings 'she's paid for' or take other items that don't belong to her.

The moment she leaves get the locks changed.

When you say your sister might move in, on what basis as I wouldn't see a sister having lodger status working.

Very concerning she opens your post

She opened envelopes addressed 'To the owner' and 'To the householder'. It is literally junk mail, only sealed in an envelope.

I throw mine in the recycling without reading it.

I agree, time to go. You made massive errors, so learn from it as opposed to getting angry with someone, who is acting as though you have a house share instead of your lodger. You are the one, who was friendly and socialised with her and gave her all the cues that this was an equal arrangement. So unfortunately the blame lays with you for much of this.

I think it could be equally hard if you have your sister to come to yours. Because you will want her to feel at home and use all the shared space. So have a good think before you decide your next move. If you advertise for a "stranger", then they can just have the bedroom. Although in this case, I would give them the largest bedroom instead of access to the living room and you'd need space for a table in the kitchen unless there's a separate dining room. I also think you have to let the heating thing go unless it's tropical conditions and turn your radiators down in your private rooms when you're out to reduce costs. Again you would need to stipulate that the Thermostat be no higher than x temperature and these days you can regulate externally.

You went into this arrangement without thinking through the consequences and expecting her to behave as you would. Thing is, she's not you. Or a mind reader. Personally I'd hate having a lodger. So I really can sympathise.

You've said that you can't kick her out for the few months because you need the money. But you want to have the upper hand anyway.

So it just sounds like she's read the actual power dynamic accurately then.

Ugh, each individual violation sounds like she just feels a little too comfortable, and I was realllllly leaning toward "You need to start speaking up!"

Then I got to the part where you HAVE and she ignored you/acted like a spoiled brat. Give her notice and kick her out!

Then again, I find the attitude towards lodgers in the UK weird. Starting with the term 'lodger'. I've had friends live with me in a property that I owned; I just called them flatmates.

Flatmates are friends you all share a place with and are equally responsible.

A lodger is someone separate who is renting a room from a homeowner. In terms of rights to the property they are not equal with the homeowner. They don't have the same flexibility as tbey would if they rented their own flat and that's part of lower rent.

For the OP this acquaintence has moved in and the Op hasnt laid boundaries and is being a little unreasonable on some thinbs
. The lodger is taking thr mick on more though and it sounds like they view themselves as equal in their home arrangement. They arent and they have no right to park on the drive and make the homeowner struggle to find a spot on the road, open post, invite lots of guests over etc. It's not thr lodgers house. If they wanted all the trappings of their own space then they should rent on their own or buy.

I know what it is, Maisy. I just think the word 'lodger' creates a weird dynamic. And 'landlady' sounds like someone running a 1970s boarding house.

If someone is paying rent to live in my house with me, and therefore paying off part of my mortgage, I consider them to have equal rights as far as actual use of the property.

I would not expect them to act any differently than if we were on a lease together.

lodging agreements are completely different from tenancy agreements.

OP check out www.spareroom.co.uk
we found our lodgers there with huge success. all lovely girls bar one .

no knowing them before was important. no friendship to lose if it all goes wrong.

also, i think your dynamic is all wrong she's the same age as you. do you think you'd be better with someone younger and or male?

doesn't sound as if she's particularly mature for 30. have you signed an agreement? should you sit down and go thru one? if she's mature enough she will understand. if she throws a sulk , get her to leave.

it is your house but also your lodgers home. set boundaries but also remember she's paying to live there too so you will need to compromise.
money is great but you've got to let her live.

guests without permission are out! that is ridiculous, but u need to say so.
we allowed no overnight guests. it was not a crash pad for pals .
u need to allow for wear and tear but redecorating is a no no.

if u need help with the mortgage and bills you will have to adjust your expectations a bit.

good luck