to feel nothing but anger at sil **Trigger warning - distressing content - edited by MNHQ**

[Nicpem1982]

My sil and I have never been close.

This week completely out of the blue she's taken her own life, she got herself into a mess with another man and felt it was her only way out.

She's left her dh and dd alone and confused and bil is now trying to come to terms with the sudden loss of his wife and dn is 4 and now has no mummy.

All I've felt since we were told is furious with her that she didn't put her dd first, I feel no sadness at the Passing of her is this unreasonable?

I once thought that I would be angry if anyone close ended their own life, I could only see the selfishness of it. That's is because it is a rational assumption. Now I see that there is no being ration when you think that you have made such a mess, that those left are better off without you. In fact, I expect that your SIL may have thought she was being unselfish in not allowing her DD to have a bad mother and your BiL to have a bad wife.

It is not possible to convince someone in such a state of mind that they have a use in life and that they are loved. At such a recent funeral, the local Vicar gave a very moving Eulogy and ended with the words. "living is not for everyone. When we have lost control of everything our life is all we have left."

What desparately sad news for the family. I don't feel I've got the right to say if YA or YAN being unreasonable though.
I feel sorry for everyone here.

It's not at all unreasonable to feel angry. In time you may be able to feel sad for her too. When people are suicidal it's because their thinking becomes warped and twisted. She probably got it into her head that they would be better off without her because she screwed up. It's hard to explain if you haven't been there yourself, it's irrational and you don't see the obvious ways to deal with it.

Fwiw if anyone is reading this and knows what I mean I've found that the local 24 hour crisis team phone number is a useful thing to have in your phone or on the fridge or whatever. I also on one occasion went to A and E who couldn't really do anything but provide a safe place to be and then called DH to fetch me when I felt a bit better.

OP you have had a shock and anything you feel is entirely justified. My sil who suffered from MH problems also killed herself several years ago leaving a 1 year old and I was angry with her too. There is no right or wrong way to react. Be gentle with yourself. This is a good place to vent so do it here and be there for your relatives.

I think you're allowed to be angry. There are no wrong feelings, they're just your feelings.

And I've been suicidal too, sometimes severely so. It still doesn't make your feelings wrong.

We may well find at a later date there were issues we weren't aware of.

There were obviously issues you were not aware of. You may find out what they were, or you may not.

Another YANBU-your feelings are what they are. Coming to terms with a suicide is beyone awful for those left behind. There is no right or wrong way to experience pain and turmoil.

And a trigger warning is completely useless if it doesn't reference what the issue is.

Or is the idea to never open a thread with 'trigger warning' in the title?

I think your anger is entirely understandable but also that when someone really feels that there is no way out of their situation other than suicide, we can't put ourselves in their place to judge fairly.

From our perspective it does seem like the easy way out and we feel anger towards their selfish decision. To them, it was the only choice left.

I suspect the anger will fade over time, giving way to other emotions. It did for me.

What a desperately sad situation for all involved. When in that sort of mental state it makes complete logical sense to do what she did. I know myself that at points I have genuinely beloved with every 'rational' thought that I add nothing to the lives of my family and that they would be relieved if I was no longer here. I have taught myself that this isn't true, despite the evidence is can see before my eyes but it is a daily battle. I totally understand that people don't get why I feel like this and think it is highly illogical - i am mentally ill and I have to constantly re train my perception of the world back to 'normal'. This is a feature of it with me.

Your anger is perfectly understandable. No feeling is wrong. Feelings just are. I wish you all well.

Just want to add to the comments saying it's a normal reaction.

Someone I knew killed themselves a few years ago, not someone I was that close to, but I knew they were struggling as they'd asked me for help. I was surprised at how angry I felt after the initial shock.

@MrDacresEUSubsid
Anger can be a protective measure - it's sometimes easier to be angry than it is to face the pain of grief.

Spot on. When my H died, DS took refuge in anger. He could cope with being angry; he couldn't cope with feeling grief.

My boss's partner took his own life a few years ago, after they had had a row. I was consumed with rage on my boss's behalf. His partner had a lot of MH issues but I really struggled with this idea that he'd stormed out of their flat and basically gone "I'll show you!" and ended his life in a very public and traumatic way.

That was someone who I just had a working relationship with, so OP I completely understand your anger at how your BIL and DN are suffering. I think keep posting and perhaps venting to friends IRL who aren't connected to the family and won't judge you for feeling this way. I do think in time the anger will pass and you will start to feel grief and compassion.

to you and your family

I am totally with you, op. When my df took her own life, my first thought was angry. It has calmed down now though, but your feelings are valid as you feel them.

Echoing so many others she is unlikely to have been thinking logically or making a balance sheet in her head.

A close friend killed himself last year, he saw a bunch of us, his friends earlier that day; we were doing a team sport together, he seemed happy, was engaged in the conversation and the joking and then went home and hung himself. The vast majority of us were so angry for so long that he didnt say anything. He could've reached out, told someone how he was feeling and we would've done all we could. But he didn't and it took lots of us months to accept that the MH issues at play were too great for him to continue living with.

You are absolutely allowed to be angry, just dont voice thise thoughts to your SIL's family. Xx

Your anger is reasonable but you may find your feelings change with time. Grief has many stages. Anger is often the stage that comes after shock and loss. Often anger directed at an imperfect /God but sometimes at the person themselves.
It's a terrible thing for her to have done but desperate must she have felt that it seemed the only way. Her desperation seem rational to you because you're seeing the situation from the outside. If she had failed in her attempt she may have come to see that in fact it made no sense, that there was some chance of salvaging the situation, even if she ended up divorced fir example. But at that moment she couldn't see that.
A few years ago I messed something up at work (not long after I lost a baby suddenly at 20 weeks). It was bad enough to have to notify my firm's professional indemnity insurance. My boss wasn't very supportive and reminded me every day what I had done. I cried nearly all the time, barely slept and seriously thought about killing myself even though I had a five year old. Now it shocks me to remember that it seemed like the only possible answer. I don't understand why I didn't see that even if I'd lost my job (I didn't - it actually blew over) nothing would have been worse than leaving my husband widowed and my son without a mother. But I didn't see that. I felt like such a total fuck up I thought the world would be better off without me. I can't explain why.

Your feelings are completely understandable, I've been in a similar situation and I also just felt anger at what I perceived to be the selfish actions of the person that died. However I also know from personal experience that we can never really understand what goes through other people's minds when they feel suicidal, it obviously makes sense to them at the time that this is their only option. I would say use MN or other places to vent your anger but then focus your conversations with family towards helping your BIL and niece rather than SIL.

While I understand why you're angry and anger is part of grief however someone dies, depression as a fatal illness is no more the persons fault than if they had died of eg cancer. It was the illness that made her think this was her only solution, if she had been well she would still be alive.

I've lost several people to suicide and have one very good friend who attempted twice and thankfully the attempts were unsuccessful, it's now 10 years later and she is happy, successful and healthy - a completely different person in many ways.

I too have mh issues and have been in very dark places. But I've just been lucky I've not been THAT ill.

Do please look out for your niece, this will be very difficult for her to process.

I don't think it is at all unreasonable to be angry. My oldest friend killed himself completely unexpectedly 18 months ago, he left a wife and young children, and many hertbroken friends, as well as his parents both still being alive. I was very angry, most of all I could not see how he could do that to his mother. It seemed pretty unforgiveable.

This was a man who was a very senior professional, was also successful in a creative hobby (not wanting to give too much info), had what appeared to everyone to be a highly successful life, materially very well-off (both in his own right and from a very well-off family), lots of friends, lovely and intelligent wife, gorgeous children, and the whole thing was such a shock and seemed incomprehensible. And selfish. And just deeply deeply unecessary and stupid.

After the initial shock (which lasted for months) the anger mellowed, and I was able to think about his situation in terms of the mental health problems which he undoubtedly must have had (unknown to any of his friends). I work in the field of mental health, and with anyone else, patients etc, I would have (and indeed I have, with patient suicides) thought about it like that from the outset, but when it is so personal it is hard to see clearly though the emotions. Over time your feelings will change. Don't beat yourself up about feeling angry, it is completely understandable at this stage. And it's not like you have a choice, if that is how you feel.

What can control is who you express the anger to, of course. With my friend's suicide, a lot of his friends all communicated to each other that we felt angry, but no-one (as far as I know) said that to his wife or his parents.

Yanbu
This has happened in my family 3 times. The anger will last for a long long time. You will get bouts of sadness in between but I am 2 years on and still so angry.
Angry every day
It is selfish
It's also the result of an illness... so also not selfish
It's the most confusing set of emotions to have to deal with
Kid left without a parent, parent left without a son, siblings left without a brother IT IS HORRENDOUS!!!!
There will come a point where you come to terms with it. You may not accept it but you have no choice but to pick up the pieces and move on for her dd's sake.
I really and truly feel for you and the family right now. I know what you are going through xx

A close friend's DH ended his own life a few years ago. Initially that shock and anger crept into grief, sadness and utter despair but no, YANBU. There's absolutely no right or wrong, feelings just happen and you have to work your way through.

I've been so close to suicide myself due to severe OCD and depression and can honestly say, it is by no means cowardly.
To be that desperate is soul crushing, you genuinely believe the people in your life are better off without you burdening them too.
Your sil probably thought she was doing her dh and dd more harm/sadness/pain etc by being around than not being.
It isn't that she didn't care about them, almost certainly the opposite. I know if you've never been there it's impossible to understand, and i'm not asking you to even try to, but to instead try to accept, however irrational you think it was, that she thought it was for the best for everyone and almost certainly felt extreme guilt in making the decision she did.

Suicide isn't black and white, it's easy to look upon it as selfish and cowardly, but the other side of the coin it takes more bravery than i can imagine to actively do something to end your own life. Also, if someone is in so much physical or mental pain they genuinely don't want to live, and cannot, despite all the reasoning in the world, think of even one other possible solution to fix what is wrong/hurting them so much, isn't it also selfish to expect them to continue on to spare the feelings of others?

I've been in the position of someone i loved dearly and felt i couldn't live without being suicidal, who had very similar problems to myself. We had a very emotional discussion one evening when things were really bad in which it ended with me telling them whilst it was the last thing in the world i wanted, if they took their life i would forgive them for doing so and still love them unconditionally and never hate or be angry with them for doing it. Thankfully this was several years ago, they have become much better and have a totally different life now that it isnt even remotely an option anymore that they would attempt suicide, but they told me how it meant the world to them knowing i would understand if they had to do it, that i wouldn't feel negatively of them as they never wanted to hurt anyone if it came to that.

I hope in time your bil and dn manage to come to terms with this devastating loss, and that they get all the support, in all forms, that they need. I'm sorry for your familys loss

What is so tragic about suicides is that it is 'catching' ie it is not uncommon for siblings/relatives/best friends to follow suit.

If there is one suicide in the family the chances of another 'taking the same way out' is so high that it can actually cross generation after generation.

The feelings of anger and selfishness that the person could do such a thing is very common indeed, also it greatly predisposes that family to suffer similar future incidences which is incomprehensibly tragic for everyone concerned.

The love of my life also attempted suicide almost 2 years ago. We split up early May 2015 because he was struggling with anxiety and depression. We remained best friends and with the hope/intention of ge tting back together once he was mentally able to cope with being in a relationship. 2 weeks after the split i couldn't get hold of him for 5 days. When he did get in touch it transpired he'd been hospitalised after a failed suicide attempt. I wanted, and still do want, to spend the rest of my life with this man. His love is what stopped me giving up every single day of 2012 and ending it all myself in the grips of severe mental illness. This thread has made me think about that day again, and realise there wasn't ever even the tiniest bit of anger felt. All i felt was devastated and sad that he had felt that desperate as i could relate, i just wanted to hug him, protect him, help him in any way i could and reassure him i loved him and was glad he was still here, even though i understood he felt anything but glad he was still alive and that i wasn't judging him or feeling negatively toward him at all.

I think it's something you have to have felt yourself to be able to not judge those who attempt/succeed at suicide.

Eveonline your story sounds chilling. Hope you are OK now?

The thing about suicide is that people think it is a 'choice' or a 'decision' but it isn't. Its what you do when you believe with all your body and mind that there is no other way to escape the unbearable pain.

The other important thing to recognise is that (just as you can experience pain from a missing limb), you can experience the utter hopelessness, the shame, the pain, the humiliation that it would usually take a talented torturer a good few days to achieve, while standing safe, warm, fed, and listening to your family playing happily in the next room.

When your brain turns against you, it is capable of making you feel and believe anything.

op you are entitled to your rage, there is nothing to be gained from denying your feelings. However you might try to imagine how you would have to feel, what would have to be done to you, in order for you to commit suicide. Then you might find a way, in time, to feel sympathy for your SIL.