To have asked for £160 from a single mum on income support

[lucindia]

I'm a childminder. I looked after a child for a single mum on income support. She was doing the 15 hours free hours. She phoned to tell me she would be sending her daughter to the local school in 4 weeks time.

So I contacted the funding department to explain that I would no longer be having the child and the date that would start.

They got back to me and said they would only be able to pay the first week of the notice period and the rest would have to be paid for by the parent.

Even though the mum had given me a months notice, I didn't actually have her child at all during that month. The day she text to say she would be going to school in a months time, was the day she stopped coming to me as the Mum was visiting family for a month.

But I was still entitled to be paid for that month. It was also a compulsory notice period.

So I sent a very polite message to the Mum explaining that she would have a balance of £160 to pay as the funding department could only pay 1 weeks notice.

She said that was fine but would need to wait until her income support payment came in the next day and would then send me that. She would send the £60 the following week from her child tax credit.

I thought nothing of it.

I mentioned it in passing to my mother in law (who I get on very well with) and she said she couldn't believe I made her pay £160 when I never even looked after her child for that notice period month and that seeing as my husband and I have a joint income of 40k we could have easily afford to let her off with the £160 which was a lot for a single mum on income support.

I never considered I was doing anything wrong. I'm entitled to be paid for that month and there's a notice period for a reason.

I really like the girls mum and we always had a great relationship when her daughter was with me. She's been with me from before she was 1 as her mum was finishing university.

What do you think. Was I unreasonable to ask for the money?

She's on benefits but qualified in a professional job and job hunting. So does have options.

I think you were wrong to ask.

You gave notice too soon, causing the three week shortfall. This was the reason the mother was faced with paying the bill herself. You should have waited to give notice to the LA. You created this situation where your payment would fall short for no reason whatsoever, and without thought to the consequences of your hurry on someone else.

Now that you know the LA will only pay one week of the notice period, will you wait until the third week next time this happens? Or did you know this would be the case but went ahead and gave the LA notice anyway?

Whether the child actually used the place in the facility during the notice period is irrelevant to whether the mother or the LA owed the CM anything. Nobody can predict what might happen in terms of illness or house burning down or flight from a DV situation after giving notice based on normal conditions. But what can be predicted is that the LA will only pay one week of a notice period.

She's on benefits but qualified in a professional job and job hunting. So does have options
I do not know what this has to do with anything. It looks to me like ex post facto justification in your head of something that was not right. Are you trying to imply that this woman is a lazy sponger and you are a hardworking CM and that this is the reason you could claim your 'entitlement'?

Agree mathan! The error definitely shouldn't have fallen on the parent in full. And other childminders & childcare providers (such as mine) have negotiated situations such as this with my childcare without anyone being left out of pocket.

No you are not being unreasonable. You are doing your job and sticking with your contract. Council and private nurseries charge and all have notice periods regardless if a parent receives income support or not. I'm a single mother on a 16 hour contract (had to reduce my hours from 30 due to relationship breakdown, ex working night shift and mum moving away, so no childcare) yet I'm not entitled to income support.

I am however entitled to the free nursery funding but my contract with the nursery still stands, four weeks holiday, four weeks notice and payment of those four weeks.

Stick to your guns and your contract! If word spreads that you let this slide, everyone will be trying it on!

Just catching up but have picked up on this:

and bleeding hearts who have fallen on their sword and hard times because they haven't been rational and strategic in financial affairs

Not all of us 'bleeding hearts' have fell on our sword or hard times. How ridiculous to presume such. You can actually be rational and strategic yet empathise with someone on benefits having a huge bill such as £160 to pay for a service that actually wasn't provided (child wasn't minded)

I have stated that I would be rubbish as a business woman as I would take in account personal circumstances. And I don't think I'm 'irrational for being that way :)

The mum gave 4 weeks notice. The council decided to pay childminder only 1 week. Not mums fault. Not really childminders except she should've known better about the councils policy on notice periods

why is op gettng so much grief-people get paid their notice whether they work or not

jazzy post in particular is ridiculous-"no judge would make u pay" er yes they would if it was in a contract-they dont let u off because your on IS

i know lets go and use services order stuff and not pay for it

op u have lost out so yanbu

Pyongyang most on benefits are low wages. Op said they had a healthy joint income.

Why does nobody 'get' that most benefit claimants are actually in work.

I "get" it perfectly thank you, as my family is in precisely that situation. Thats how I know and why I posted as I did.

What I dont "get" is why the OP's income is in any way relevant. The contract that the client signed and agreed to is the only thing that has any bearing on this situation. There was a cock up about giving notice. THe client should have done it 4 weeks before care was due to end and she didnt, therefore she had to pay for the 4 weeks notice as the council wont, and why should they for hours that are not being use? The fact that she only had to pay 3 of those 4 weeks was lucky for her, the bill would have been more otherwise. The OP is not to blame in any of this and her family income does not alter the fact that she is owed that money.

I am afraid that I find it very hard to believe that anyone who says that morally she is wrong (which is crap btw) would waive this if it was them running the business.

In many customer/public service jobs, there are areas where you can make a judgement call and bend the rules if there is a good reason. I think you could have been a bit more generous here. Whatever your previous clients 'prospects', the fact is she's a single mum on benefits and can probably ill afford a £160 payment for a service she didn't receive. Perhaps it would have been kinder to just charge for one week, rather than the full period.

I don't think you were unreasonable but I wouldn't have been able to take they money, whether or not I was entitled to it.

I'd probably give it back to her to be honest.

Here's a thought.....

What would the responses have been if the OP was also a lone parent and this was her only source of income?

I am betting that no one would have said that she should waive this fee, so the responses are based purely on the assumption that she can afford to waive it. But actually no one knows if they can afford to stand to lose this money anymore than the client can afford to pay it. Its all conjecture.

And even if they could, how come the client didnt have an issue with it? If it was that unfair then surely she would have said so, but she didnt.

I would even more emphatically advised her that she shouldn't have been in such a hurry to pick up the phone and tell the LA the family had given notice, if her financial situation had been more tenuous.

This would have been in her best interests too, as she couldn't know in advance if the family giving notice would do a bunk or simply refuse to pay or string out small payments in arrears over a year, or whatever.

The OP would have been covering her own arse too if she had waited to notify the finding provider.

It made no sense at all from a business pov to do what the OP did.

I think that if you had managed to fill in her place with a replacement than YABU but if not, you were out of pocket so ok to ask for her fee even though you did not look after child. Perhaps you could have given her time to pay it though.

I agree Math, well sort of.

A moments thought would have had them giving notice 4 weeks earlier or 3 weeks later, either would have worked. But the mistake there was on the part of the client, as she is the one who needs to find a months notice payments. Although as the OP is the one who will lose out if the client didnt pay then it would have made sense for her to cover her own back too.

But my issue is the "Morally you shouldnt expect her to pay because you have more money than her" standpoint. I am sure that if the OP had been a LP on a limited income then the responses would have been very different.

The mother doesn't need to find the month's notice payments if the CM notifies the funding agency a few weeks after the mother gives notice that she is about to lose a client. The mother did what she was supposed to do. The CM was the one who jumped the gun needlessly.

The funding only pays out 38 weeks per year, so LP would have to pay for the rest out of her childcare element of her benefits anyway. Had she made provisions for this?

@Michellelovesizzy I agree, I said similar upthread. I'm not convinced my pride is worth saving £160. Not only would I want to pay what is owed,I would be offended at the assumption that I manage my money so poorly that I can't afford it.

I'd be embarrassed to be seen out wearing a new item of clothing, buying take away food, or taking the bus when I could walk, if I didn't pay my bills first. I would feel like a hypocrite.

I have respect for all my clients and do not make assumptions about their financial situation. They employ the service and they pay the bill, even if they cancel on short notice.

@Willow2017 that's unfortunate. I charge a bit more than the going rate around here, but also the minimum I think I deserve to earn for the work and commitment I put in. I would stop doing it if I was earning less than I am worth.

I have a healthy income, 'full books' and I feel valued by my clients. In my case, it was good for business to be a bit more expensive, but 'worth every penny'.

Defiantly Opel,

I got a parking ticket the other day, will I be excused from this to because I recive income support, I also feel that the responsibility of making sure all your funding is in place falls at the parents door! Because there are perants with two year who don't get the funding at all, but may not have any more money in the end as some one getting income support! So we're would this end

I agree. And should the traffic warden have somehow decided that you couldn't afford it from the 'evidence' in your car? Should he have offered to waive it? Should he have offered to go halves?

Defiantly opal,

The woman is entitled to be paid her notice without feeling guilty, just because you are on income support does not mean you don't pay bills! There are holes in the system and that's were the problem lies! The funding does not cover every thing but the conciel do not tell you that! The funding doesn't cover any school holiday which is also a pain!

Michelle, from this wording it looks like you can spread it over the year if your service provider is willing. It would be about 10.5 hours per week for 52 weeks, but it would maybe help with keeping your budgeting more consistent?

Oh ok thanks that's really helpful I will have a chat with my daughter nursery then I can pay the extra 4.5 hours weekly

Sticking by the terms of the contract is acting like a professional and thus plays a part in raising the status of childcare as a serious profession overall. While we're on the wild hypotheses, letting this woman off the hook could lead parents locally to expect other childminders - who might be lone parents themselves - not to be paid in similar circumstances.

Spin
That's a good point. I am a single parent should I waive fees and let my kids go without to be charitable to another parent?

YANBU - The client should have given her notice earlier and it would not have been a problem. Even the client agrees you are not unreasonable.