to think that when people congratulate themselves for their great parenting they are often just lucky

[deliverdaniel]

I've seen so many threads on here where people say that people should "just teach their kids to, or not to x, y, z" or "do some parenting" or "mine never did that at that age- I just taught them not to" or similar. They are often quite smug and even nasty in tone.

Of course good parenting matters. But it seems as though so much of what kind of kid you get is just the luck of the draw. Eg- my friend's toddler can easily be told "no" and will respect the boundaries. Mine can be told no a million times, with consquences enforced every time and will keep pushing and pushing. My kids are pretty good eaters. My friend's will basically only eat pasta and nothing else, but I really wouldn't say we have done anything substantially different on that front. I just got lucky. one of my kids sits still and "behaves" easily. The other one is wild. One is a great sleeper. The other one terrible. One whines at everything. One is generally always positive and agreeable. Etc etc.

Of course there are parents who just ignore their kids behaving badly and are screwing up in some major way. But mostly I see parents doing their best , generally doing similar kinds of things w regards to discipline/ eating/ sleep etc etc and getting v different results depending on the kid. Caveat- mine are still pretty young- 6 and 3 so maybe my "parenting" willbear fruit later, for better or worse, but so much of it just seems down to luck. AIBU?

It's a combination. But if you want to blame parents for the negative outcomes or traits of their children you have to be prepared to credit them with the positives.

Things like sleeping and eating are often luck- yes there are ways you can try and get your children to be better at them, but if you have a night owl or a child with taste /texture issues there's only so much you can do.

But children don't bounce out of the womb knowing their manners, knowing how to organise themselves, tidying their rooms on Saturday morning etc.

I have a DD that everyone comments on. How lovely she is etc. She is. But she is as stubborn as the day is long, naturally confident, and has a temper. The combination led to a LOT of tantrums when she was younger. She could be hard, hard work and needs very firm, clear boundaries. There were times I was exhausted and wanted to give in to whatever the issue was, but I stuck to my guns because I knew that DD could quite easily cross over into being a not so nice child otherwise. That was not luck, it was hard bloody work! It's never-ending too, because although DD is a joy of a child now, she's getting older and I've noticed the hormones creeping in.

Yanbu.

I knew I was lucky with dc1's sleep. We had a routine and it worked for him. DC2's sleep however, non routine known to man worked for her. They're good at school too, amazing considering the behaviour I have to deal with at home.

Ha, yes. In my 21st year of parenting three kids of very different ages and admit I know NOTHING. Ok, I am confident that I have the basics down, I'm loving and affectionate, I have zero tolerance for bad manners or lying or disrespect, I put their needs first, I have a lot of fun with them as well as crap days. I'm human in other words. They are very different people and I've learned how much of it is luck. One was a nightmare baby, another was a nightmare teenager. Much hair-tearing and soul searching but there wasn't anything we could do except sit it out. Smugness about your perfect kids irritates the shite out of me

people ask me how I got my children to eat veggies.

I did what I thought was right... fed them veggies from little etc, limited sweets

but I could have done all this and they still would not like veg.

behaviour on the other hand... well autism makes that one tricky.

Luck obviously plays some part...but nurture/parenting has a lot more to do with it than a lot of people give credit for IMO.

There are already comments, and you always see them on nature/nurture threads saying 'I have 2/3/4 dc and brought them all up the same yet ds1 xyz whilst ds2...'

No, your dc haven't all been brought up the same and have had vastly different experiences in the formative years just due to birth order if nothing else. This is bound to have an effect.

My lb is a brilliant sleeper and has been from around 3 months but I can honestly say that had nothing to do with me. He just 'got it' and sorted it out on his own.
On the other hand he was terrible at eating until fairly recently (he's 18 months) and I blamed myself completely for that one! No idea why, I tried every type weaning going and he wouldn't try any of it.
Everything he does well I seem to credit to him and everything that goes wrong I put down to me. Maybe I need to give myself a bit of a break sometimes!x

Some people are smug bastards.

Some smug bastards become parents.

Shit happens

I am both lucky, and (I hope) good at parenting. They do not have to be mutually exclusive.

I am also good at training dogs - which helps a bit with parenting to be fair...

Good manners = good parenting
Good sleeper = luck

I completely agree.

I think that raising entitled, spoilt brats is due to parenting. There is a choice. A lot of the rest is down to luck (especially personality combinations of the DC. And school achievement.)

I was an absolutely fabulous parent until DS2 arrived.

Soup dragon I hear you loud and clear.

I'm also going with mainly "luck" like you OP.

DS is hard work. He's loud, fast, bouncy, his eyes are constantly roving for the next thing he can climb on/pick up/tip over/inspect/jump off, and he's still only a half reliable sleeper at age four (and a HALF, mummy). No matter how many times I tell him to stop, or tell him off for stuff, I nearly always have to physically remove him from the situation because his ears switch off when he's doing something he wants to do. I gave up doing toddler groups or activities with him from about 16 months because I couldn't keep him from running off or around or out of the door or from constantly trying to hijack other children's buggies or scooters.

DD (20 months) is easygoing, sweet natured, slept through from 12 weeks, says "Tant you!" and "Pweez" without having to be reminded EVER. Even uses them while she's in the "Mine!" stage! And she can play by herself for ages with her dolls.

If she was my first, I think I'd be so smug. I really wouldn't understand the struggle that parents of more, erm, spirited children face. I didn't really understand how other people's babies could be so "good" all the time, or sleep so much! And now I too have a child who actually stops being naughty when you tell her to!

But DS is extremely loving and adores his baby sister, and it's mutual. Feedback from teachers and carers is that he's social and generally well-behaved, even if he runs around and doesn't listen very well - so I think that's about all I can take credit for, for both children.

My little brother definately needed reins when out in public! I think as he was the last, mum relaxed more with him. He could be a challenge but was never rude (he could be very sweet). However, he wasn't as confident as he liked to partray. He regularly wet the bed and had a few facial 'tics' for a few years. When mum paddled him, he would say "It doesn't hurt" and just laugh it off, much to her frustration! He apparetnly had not fear of heights (I was always being pulled off from climbing around the settee). They (parents) instilled a sense of right and wrong and manners but they both lacked confidence and were very shy and not very scially adept :(

BBC HYS had a thread about this last year and there were hundreds of comments from parents declaring their child/ren never once had a tantrum in their lives especially in public and that it was down to their superior parenting skills. A load of liars in other words

My parenting maxim has always been, if you threaten....follow through, if you promise....deliver, no matter what, and I always applied it to both my DC. One was a model child, and never caused me any problems, the other was a terror....go figure!

Ah nature versus nurture.
I have twins and can categorically state that they had different personality traits even within the womb!!!

That's not to say that parenting has no impact. Obviously even personality traits can be changed by parenting (good and bad).

My DD is "spirited" (bloody stubborn but lovely and affectionate). As a newborn she never slept, as in ever, and has gradually regulated her sleep through a combination of growing up little by little and insistence (lots and lots of cuddles and booby). On the other hand, she's always been adventurous with food (think tasting our food and loving most of it from as early as four months - at first we only let her lick fruit, but at one year old she tasted and mostly ate our mussels dish, well, the sauce). So yes, sleeping and eating are mostly innate but of course you also need to work on them, and I'm not being smug, she still doesn't sleep through.

As for the rest, people who consider babies to be a blank slate to be moulded by parenting are deluded. Even as newborns they have some personality traits that you can't ignore, such as alertness, curiosity, being chilled/unsettled, etc. She was looking around before she could actually see much, not because I stimulated her but because she had to look around and try to take in as much as she could with her limited senses (think a Suricata baby who could hold her own head from birth, yeah, I didn't know that was even possible until I had her, and put it to good use while we went out, people actually stared at this tiny days-old baby looking over her dad's shoulder). On the other hand, she's kind and generally well-behaved, adventurous, resilient and very very stubborn. I don't think she's ever hit another child intentionally, at least in my presence or in the nursery, bar a very short period when she was much younger and would bite when frustrated, and we calmly and firmly explained that that wasn't nice at all (and she actually stopped!).

Does this mean that I'm an über-mum? No, I just got an easy child in terms of behaviour who's clever enough to realise that dad and mum mean business. Others might not see her as easy (my mum certainly doesn't) but I'll take a little girl who pushes boundaries but backs down when told off any day. She may be a bit more hard work for us but a doormat she ain't.

Some people want to blame everything on poor parenting because they can then believe it is something that will never happen to them.

In RL I find that parents are broadly supportive of each other. DS1 subjected me to numerous humiliating public tantrums and I lost count of the number of times I had to physically remove him kicking and screaming from public places. I got the odd judgey look but mostly it was sympathetic smiles.
However there are loads of posters on here who would no doubt have been judging my terrible parenting. I see so much about toddlers on here that is totally unrealistic IMO e.g. any 14 month old child should be capable of sitting nicely in a restaurant for an hour. Yeah, right.

I don't agree all eating/sleeping is luck. A huge deal (talking NT children here) has to do with how it is dealt with. Many will be telling people " we have tried everything we have done all the stuff they say too but nothing works"

One example was a parent at primary who had " tried everything " to make her child not cry when going to school. She would enter school with her child going

" come on Jane today you will not cry"
"oh come on Jane it makes me sad when you cry"
"Jane today it will be just fine you just need to trust me"
"Jane you dont need to cry today ohh come on jane ohh sweetie its not so bad I will come back to get you"
"Jane your a big girl you can go to school without crying"

Basically Jane (obviously made up name) got SO much attention from crying she continued. Additionally mum was so anxious about her crying Jane picked up on this anxiety that it became even more anxious setting for her to go to school.

With food I have seen similar
"Dave eat that please"
"Dave just one bite"
"Dave come on etc etc"

A lot of it is how we parent. The poster who above said " it has taken a lot more parenting to get a half presentable child" of one of their children has it spot on.

Some children need more effort in this than others.

Those who says " no matter how often I tell my child no they ignore" IT may feel that way but eventually as they grow this will sink in and it will help create who they become.

Also there is a huge difference in the parent who sits on their bum with a cup of tea and go " No John dont do that... John I said no Dont touch"

And the parent who gets up and moves their child from what they are not to touch saying " No Poppy dont do that here have a look at this book"

Both parents have said no however 2 very different ways of saying no.

So parent of John might say " no matter how often I say no John just keeps doing it."

Where as Parent of Poppy might say " I tell her no and she goes to do something else"

The message Poppy gets is " I can't touch that but ohh look something else" The message John gets is "Nothing happens if I continue" Eventually as the children grows up this will spill into other things.

It is about nature vs nurture yes. However it is also about how we react with our parenting.

I have 4 teenagers who eat a wide range of food. I am often told that I am " so lucky" Number 4 is now the one with the widest range of food. However as a toddler/early primary school" she was awful with food. I read loads of books tried different techniques and frankly at the time I would have said " nothing works" Then I found a very hands off approach. Simple straight forward listen to your child and what they dont like. Acknowledge this and then add a few things additional and a simple " dont forget to eat your peas" then attention off the child. back to conversation.. And for her it worked brilliant..Also helped that once I started listening I learnt she (like her mother) dislikes gravy.. Doesn't like tomatoes.. So once those 2 things were cut off her food she was more open to trying new things. However that took about 4-5 years to work out and they were difficult years. A lot more parenting than her older siblings (who eats anything and always have) needed in this area..

She is also a introvert and the rest of her family is extroverts so there again I have needed to adjust my parenting for HER needs. Frankly it has been hard at times. No I have not got it all right but her dad and I try our best.

IMO A lot of it has to do with what we expect and how we put this across. Not just about how we think we parent. each child will need slightly different parenting. IMO that is a good thing. it means we as parents adapt to our individual childrens needs. What works for one might not for another. I think it is good parenting when we continue to work towards finding out what works for " that child"

It's interesting. It is often the case that if your children are 'well behaved' (oh so subjective) it is your parenting, but if they are terrors (eye roll) it is your bad luck.

I take responsibility as a parent. I 'give' them their achievements but I know my guidance got them there.
I 'give' them their misdemeanours but I know it is then my job to redirect them. Quite possibly I had dropped the ball in this area.

We have had 'good' phases and 'bad' phases but I've never blamed luck. To me that would be akin to giving up on my role as a parent.

Enko I got great advice on mt tried everything excuse:

Don't try everything. Try one thing at a time, confidently and consistently, over a prolonged period.

That was such an eye opener!

It makes me laugh when a parent of an 18 month old says "my child understands that x is wrong". No they don't. They might not do it because you have told them not to and they are a biddable child but they don't understand it is wrong.

You laugh at that spike?