to think that when people congratulate themselves for their great parenting they are often just lucky

[deliverdaniel]

I've seen so many threads on here where people say that people should "just teach their kids to, or not to x, y, z" or "do some parenting" or "mine never did that at that age- I just taught them not to" or similar. They are often quite smug and even nasty in tone.

Of course good parenting matters. But it seems as though so much of what kind of kid you get is just the luck of the draw. Eg- my friend's toddler can easily be told "no" and will respect the boundaries. Mine can be told no a million times, with consquences enforced every time and will keep pushing and pushing. My kids are pretty good eaters. My friend's will basically only eat pasta and nothing else, but I really wouldn't say we have done anything substantially different on that front. I just got lucky. one of my kids sits still and "behaves" easily. The other one is wild. One is a great sleeper. The other one terrible. One whines at everything. One is generally always positive and agreeable. Etc etc.

Of course there are parents who just ignore their kids behaving badly and are screwing up in some major way. But mostly I see parents doing their best , generally doing similar kinds of things w regards to discipline/ eating/ sleep etc etc and getting v different results depending on the kid. Caveat- mine are still pretty young- 6 and 3 so maybe my "parenting" willbear fruit later, for better or worse, but so much of it just seems down to luck. AIBU?

[RedAndYellowPeppers]

I disagree. The child is behaving is down to parenting. Their temperament or personality isn't.
That means that one child might be more likely to do xx more easily than another. That means that one child will get something more quickly than another or that you will have be bloody consistent with one whereas with the other you can afford to be more flexible. (Hence the need to adapt your parenting to the child rather than doing the same thing with all the children)
There is a point though when this isnt about the child, it's about the parents (I'm thinking being rude, unable to eat correctly at the table, being very noisy etc etc)

For me a good example of that is the latest study with autistic children that shows that a parenting class (for the parents) will change the behaviour of those children so much so that they won't show as many signs of autism (they still have autism but their behaviour isn't what would be classified as typically autistic).
Or the way that parenting an autistic child in a certain way will mean that that child will learn to eat lots of different type of foods instead of having a very restricted diet etc...

[RedAndYellowPeppers]

spike actually I think a 18months do understand a hell of a lot.
My starting point has always been that my dcs could understand A LOT rather than them having a pavloving reaction....

[fairweathercyclist]

YANBU and in fact I read a very interesting article recently about Dutch parents and how they don't take credit for their kids' achievements, but neither do they beat themselves up when their kids do something wrong. They realise that their kids have free will and make their own minds up about things. Kids who are parented the same way with the same genes turn out very differently.

www.washingtonpost.com/news/parenting/wp/2015/11/05/are-they-the-worlds-most-relaxed-moms-what-we-can-all-learn-from-the-dutch/?utm_term=.f5bda5d50889

"One of the biggest things I’ve noticed since moving to the Netherlands is that children aren’t held up as a reflection of their parents. Little Janneke’s or Joost’s accomplishments (or shortcomings) aren’t judged as a product of their parenting. I was taken aback when a Dutch parent casually mentioned how her son was smarter than a friend of his. It wasn’t the fact she offered this information that surprised me, but the way she delivered it: matter of fact, devoid of ego and without a hint of subtext that this somehow made her son better than his friends"

[pandarific]

Oh, I don't know. Me and Fiancé will be TTC after our wedding this summer, and it's scary! We met friends for a coffee with their adorable, well behaved (only bad moment when she slipped and started to cry), vegetable eating toddler and they said parenthood has been fantastic and it's hard at times, but been the best 2.5 years ever. That they read A LOT of literature on parenting, and a lot of it has had good effect.

I think they're obviously doing something right, surely? And it was so incredibly nice to hear parents of young children say something other than, essentially, 'welcome to hell'. Maybe it's deluded, but I'" think I'll keep my delusion and spend all my money on parenting courses/books when it's my turn!

[Brokenbiscuit]

I'm lucky. Incredibly so.

In some ways, I'm a crap parent by done people's standards. No routines, not strict on bedtimes, pretty easy-going about what she watches on tv, few rules, no punishments. Messy house, mum who leaves everything till the last minute and suffers from social anxiety.

DD, however, is amazing. She is that kid that every teacher wants in their class - confident, organised, disciplined, kind, caring, hard-working, resilient. Always has the right kit. Does her homework the day she gets it. Never falls out with anyone. Etc etc. She is like a little Angel.

People often ask me how we do it. I often wonder how we got so lucky. She was just born that way.

The only thing we have done "right" is oodles of unconditional love.

[ithakabythesea]

Our older girl is a model of what parents' aspire to - amazing results, competition winner in her field, gold DofE, top uni, hard, traditionally male subject, steady relationship, leggy and beautiful, lots of friends, loves and visits her family. She ticks every 'success' box.

So plainly we are stellar parents - right?

If only DD2 hadn't come along to keep us humble....

[OpalFruitsMarathonsandSpira]

The only thing we have done "right" is oodles of unconditional love.

Stealth boast?

[OpalFruitsMarathonsandSpira]

If only DD2 hadn't come along to keep us humble....

She'd probably have been like dd1 if she had come first. This is why I struggle even with twin studies.

[Spikeyball]

How much direct experience have you had of children with autism Red and Yellow?
Yes giving lots of help to a child with autism can help each individual child to reach their full potential but that doesn't mean every child will be able to achieve the same things.
And no the average 18 month old doesn't understand it is dangerous to run into the road or why hitting is wrong etc. They don't have that level of cognition.

[Frouby]

I was a good parent to dd. She has always been an exceptionally well behaved child. She is clever, kind, works hard blah blah blah.

I am the same parent to ds. He is all the above but a bit more 'spirited' than dd. He is more full on, more demanding, more effort etc. He is fussy about food which dd never was, didn't sleep through until he was 2, bedtimes are hit and miss.

But I look at my dsis with 2 similar aged dcs. They are both feral. They are hardwork, her eldest is worse, her younger heading that way. I do judge her parenting. It's awful. She loves her dcs but isn't willing to put the effort in with them.

Barring SN good parenting definitely has a massive impact on dcs. And by good parenting I don't mean endless crafts and activities and the 'making memories' bollocks you see on fb. I just mean by offering an upbringing that has love, affection, boundaries and support in it. That no matter what your dcs know right from wrong, see good examples around them and are supported emotionally.

[buckingfrolicks]

Check out attribution theory - basically we claim credit for the good stuff, and blame fate or others for the bad stuff, that happens to us.

[RubyWinterstorm]

OP, I think you are right.

My SIL was a very lovely but smug parent of the perfectly behaved child....

Then number 2 was born, and she realised it had just been luck with No 1 child!

She has very gracefully apologised for any previous smugness/giving me "advice" and we now laugh about it

[dataandspot]

Red and yellow peppers

Can you give a link to that study please?

[AllTheUserNamesAreTaken]

I think sleeping and eating are down to the luck of the draw and I am extremely grateful every day that we hit lucky in both respects. I am never smug about it as I know it's luck and luck can often run out!

Things like manners and respect are mostly down to parenting (and nursery.)

However, how he behaves when he is tired is another matter. He will not sleep anywhere other than his bed or the car, no matter how exhausted. He becomes like a hyperactive drunk person which is fun and at that point there is nothing we can do with him. Reasoning with him doesn't work, telling him off doesn't work, sanctions donr work. I feel like a really ineffective parent when he is tired, particularly when my friends children are behaving well at that point. The only thing we can do is get him into bed. I am very jealous of the people whose toddlers used to fall asleep in their pushchairs allowing their parents an extra glass of wine at dinner on holiday He has NEVER fallen asleep cuddled up with us since about 6 months old. I dream of DS occasionally wanting to come into our bed to sleep because it has only happened 3 times in his life! It's not fair, I want a bloody cuddle!

[Spikeyball]

It will be that super parenting stuff that was in the news a few months.

[Sundance01]

I think it is a bit of both like most people have said. I also think that as individual people we have a parenting style that suits our personality and lifestyle and this may or may not be the parenting style that best suits your child's personality and that is purely down to luck.

I also think some people want their children to be more spirited and have minds of their own and this is reflected in their parenting styles. Their children often seem less disciplined and ruder but probably grow up to be happier more successful adults. Parents who heavily control their children may have better behaved children but will they grow up to be happier adults? I doubt it.

[IamFriedSpam]

RedAndYellowPeppers

You totally contradict yourself there - you say one child will get it more easily than the other but it's totally down to parenting. Some two year olds can sit still for extended periods and others can't. It's actually not beneficial to force kids to sit down for long periods of time if they have a lot of energy (you don't let them run riot in a restaurant - you just accept that while they're young formal dining just isn't going to happen unless you have a babysitter).


Also can you post a link to this study about parenting eliminating autistic traits - because you've been incredibly vague and it's fairly obvious that for a large portion of autistic individuals nothing but extensive therapy is going to be helpful and even that isn't going to eliminate their autism. (It's also potential dangerous because if someone is over stimulated you might be able to train them into not reacting but it's going to be incredibly stressful and lead to long term issues with low self esteem

[noeffingidea]

Of course it's not all down to luck. Nothing is.
I have raised 2 responsible successful adults, and yes a lot of that is down to my parenting (I did 99% of the childcare). I'm not going to pretend otherwise, it was very hard work. They didn't spontaneously grow up that way.
There are elements of luck of course - their personalities, the area we live in, the schools they went to, etc etc.
My third child is autistic which makes everything more difficult, but good effective parenting still makes a difference.

[MsHooliesCardigan]

I remember someone on here saying that the way children turn out is down to the '3 P's' - Parenting, Personality and Peers which made sense to me. I don't think anyone would seriously say that parenting makes no difference,of course it does. However, there are other variables which are beyond the control of parents. Parental influence begins to decrease as children get older, particularly when they get to secondary school and peers become much more influential. Children with a more 'difficult' temprament e.g. poor impulse control, thrill seeking etc are more likely to get involved with a 'bad crowd'. My aunt has 2 sons born 14 months apart. I accept that nobody parents all their children identically but any parenting differences there were were so subtle, I'd be hard pressed to point them out. The older one is a pillar of society- works hard, does loads of fundraising for charity, coaches the Under 10 football team, adopted his wife's severely disabled daughter etc. The younger one has had 2 jobs that lasted a couple of weeks before he was sacked, has 7 children by 4 different women and has served numerous prison sentences for drug dealing, burglary and GBH. I don't think that can all be explained away by parenting.

[seafoodeatit]

Just echoing that it's a bit of both, personality is one thing and attitude is another.

A parent at DC school who's constantly complaining about their child doesn't seem to see that they're not helping things. Their child is really struggling to make friends in school at the moment, the mum just says she just likes to speak her mind and it's everybody else's fault, doesn't seem to think she needs to do anything about the nasty name calling and comments her dd keeps making because that's 'just what' she's like'. She keeps glaring at me now because I don't do play dates anymore, funnily enough I don't appreciate an hour of watching my child get hurled nasty comments at!

[Astoria7974]

Children will model their parents. If you're not polite or respectful they won't be. If you're lazy then they will be too. If you spend all day on your phone or refuse to talk to them, then come 13 they'll follow.

Good parenting isn't rocket science. It's knowing that your kids look up to you, it's recognising that when shit happens it's up to you to fix it.

[Crumbs1]

No, I disagree that it's mainly down to luck. Luck plays a part but parenting is the biggest single influence on how a child turns out - morally, socially and academically. Good parenting is hard work. It's not always comfortable and can be incredibly frustrating.
Maintaining a stable family life is hard too and needs compromise, communication and a shared value base. Children from such relationships do far better statistically than those from single parents and serial relationships.
Children from wealthier homes do better - making sufficient money to raise the family is tough. Sacrifices have to be made by the parents usually (except where there is significant inheritance). Successfull parents often have one or both parents working long hours, commuting or working away from home for varying amounts of time.
Of course I'll be shouted down about kids with but having a husband who has worked in the field for over 30 years and having worked with many families with children with SEN and the children themselves, it is clear that good parenting of many children with additional needs is also transforming. Children with SEN can be just plain spoilt and naughty same as any other children and it does them no favours to make excuses- whilst accepting reasonable adaptation is necessary.

[Natsku]

Its a mixture really. I got really lucky with DD as a baby and toddler as she was pretty chill, wasn't a runner so I didn't need to use baby reins, would happily play by herself for long stretches of time. Shit sleeper but nevermind that. But my luck ran out when she turned 3 and now at 6 she is a nightmare at times.

BUT, after many visits with a child psychologist, and a visit to a child psychiatrist, I was able to change my parenting to ways that better suited DD.

[MsHooliesCardigan]

fairweather That link is really interesting. It's strange that, in a country like the UK where there is so much focus on parenting, parents reading endless parenting books and articles and aligning themselves to a particular 'school of parenting', research constantly concludes that our children are the most miserable in Europe whereas a country where people are much more laid back about parenting produces very happy children although I also think that the pressure put on children by our education system is a huge factor in why they are so unhappy.

[Applebite]

My parents treated us exactly the same. I was a model child, never did much wrong, worked hard at school, etc.

DB was a living nightmare. Just naughty for the sake of it, and to see what would happen, eg pressing the red button on the escalators in Harrods when he had been told repeatedly not to, "just to see what it would do."

Personality has a huge amount to do with it, and I think first/second/third born does too. If you have a sibling who is already getting praise and attention for being good, how do you go about getting some of that?!