To be baffled by and disappointed with the amount of transphobia on MN?

[ShutTheFuckUpBarbara]

I know I'll get flamed for voicing my opinion on this, but I don't care.

I just don't understand why there is so much hatred for trans people on here.

Yes, some trans activists are extremists and no I don't agree with them, but should all other trans people suffer because of them?

I get that there are issues that need to be addressed, as highlighted by recent items in the news and recent threads (which prison should trans people be sent to, can a MTW be a girl guide leader and various others). I don't have a solution for these, but I feel that as a society we should work together to make it work, rather than just spout hatred and insults.

It is especially disappointing as there are a lot of people in the trans community suffering mental health issues, often as the result of how they are being treated, and MN is usually a safe haven for people with MH issues.

I used to enjoy reading the Feminism chat (or most of it anyway), now almost every thread on there is transphobic

Most of us here are women, a lot of us are from ethnic minorities, or have a disability, a lot of us have been discriminated against, we know what it feels like so why do it to others??

As I said owlzes, I would like a definition of woman that includes both me and Mtt. One that is not circular, does not rely on offensive stereotypes, and preferably has a link to actual science.

I don't think that is much to ask if ZOMG, TRANSWOMEN ARE WOMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm having a read of /r/gender_critical on reddit. I'd recommend others do the same.

How are transwomen women?
What makes them women?
Can anyone answer?

Btw, fine by me if they want to be addressed as females and do whatever they like.

But what makes them women, if anything?

So, women's spaces, that were provided to give women privacy, dignity and safety from male violence are disappearing. Women's sports are being opened up to people who are male, spelling an end to women's sports. Children are being railroaded into a lifetime of medical treatment and rendered sterile. Lesbians are being attacked for not wanting sex with people with penises. Awards and scholarships that were meant for women are now being won by male people. The ability to talk about any of this is disappearing because opposing views are no-platformed or simply shouted down with accusations of transphobia and bigotry, and anyway words like 'woman', 'female' and 'lesbian' no longer have any meaning so we no longer even have the language to discuss these issues ...

... and some people's complaint is that we are not discussing this nicely enough?

Fuck. That. Shit.

*Anothermoomin
*
I have - at length - described my feelings on this issue. I have used some of my specific concerns to explain my feelings.

I am worried:

• that legally redefining the term 'woman' endangers my rights as a woman.

• that redefining the words 'woman' and 'man' erases the rights of gay people.

• that creating an umbrella term of 'woman' to include biological women and transwomen makes it far harder to protect the rights of either subset. (Women who are not trans will have different issues from transwomen due to their biology. Transwomen will have different battles to fight too - lumping both groups together in legislation makes enshrining rights in law very difficult and over-complicated)

Can you please lay out your position in relation to some of these concerns?

I really want to hear someone explain to me why my concerns are unwarranted - but no one has even tried yet. I just here 'transphobic' and 'bigot' and 'TERF'

I find it slightly odd that a bunch of left leaning feminists have the same attitude to the trans issue as Donald Trump but as someone said on another thread, I guess your enemy's enemy is your friend.

fish I feel something is wrong if your child cannot access medical treatment they want because of a political agenda. My heart goes out to you.

There is no reason why it hurts anyone to use the word 'cis' except it's a sign of losing that one bit of privilege and a lot of the women here are staggeringly reluctant to do that. They can cite feminism as much as they like, but I don't think it's feminist to use your own oppression as a reason to kick others when they are down.

Do get lost with your smug inane virtue signalling. I'll decide what I label myself as, thanks. Women don't have any privilege over males.

Italic fail, smug virtue signalling wankery I was quoting was the first para.

fighting back against the age old system of male privilege isn't transphobia. asking questions isn't transphobia. Being bloody angry at the erosion of women's rights isn't transphobia. Being angry that both men and women are being reduced to basic stereotypes isn't transphobia.
Yet again women are being told to sit down, shut up, move over, we know better than you, give up your rights, how dare you think for yourselves, how dare you defend yourself you TERF!
But that is exactly how many transactivists behave and then if someone dares to question their special status, rather than present a decent argument they shout 'oppresion' and shut down anyone who disagrees with threats and insults.
Actual transphobia is shut down quickly on here, you can't stop debate just by insulting posters.

There is no reason why it hurts anyone to use the word 'cis' except it's a sign of losing that one bit of privilege

Fucking hysterical...Yep that's the problem...Women with all their privilege

YANBU.

It has absolutely ruined the feminist section on here, because either you agree that trans women are the greatest threat EVER to womanity and want to discuss Danielle Muscato all day long, or you've "drunk the kool aid".

There is a lot of selective remembering of the many, many threads criticising MNHQ for daring to "silence the voices of women" aka delete hateful transphobia on here too.

Believe it or not OP, MN used to be a haven for anti-vaxers and supporters of Andrew Wakefield. That passed, hopefully this will too.

I find it slightly odd that a bunch of left leaning feminists have the same attitude to the trans issue as Donald Trump but as someone said on another thread, I guess your enemy's enemy is your friend.

Yes, and I expect Donald Trump thinks the sky is blue, too. I don't feel the need to be in stupid knee jerk denial just because a right wing person also thinks something. Unlike many other "progressive" leftists, apparently.

Is it transphobic to object to male sex offenders being reported and recorded as women, OP? Is this one of the recent trans threads you are referring to?

I did literally lol at that

But you have drunk the kool aid.

I've not read the whole thread, but I will.

I just wanted to take exception at this:

I just wish more people discussed it in a civil manner

It's very rare - especially on MN - that I've seen those women who disagree with trans agenda do anything other than try to engage in a civil and respectful manner.

For our efforts we receive death threats and rape threats. In my early (naive days) when it was possible to link my online persona with my offline one my DDs received rape threats.

My youngest is 5 FFS. Let that sink in: a man who disagrees with my view that girls have a right to change in a locker room without being confronted by a penis threatened to rape my 5 year old

this is an interesting read American paediatric doctors saying trans is harmful

How about Lian Huntley, iPity? Have you set up a petition for her to be moved to a female prison yet?

Good post from Tinfoil Hattie.

I am a woman. If you need a descriptor for me as someone who is biologically female and happy to identify that way, then use 'woman'. If someone identifies to a different gender than the one they were born with, then 'trans' as a pre-fix addresses the descriptor issue, no?

Livia, there is common ground with the right on this issue, just as there is on the sex industry. It's possible to reach the same conclusion from radically different starting points and for very different reasons.

Recently a group of feminists has formed a coalition with some right wing women in the US to campaign on trans issues which affect women's rights. As one of the feminist women said:

On the subject of whether a woman is an adult human female, feminists have been made thoroughly unwelcome on the left. So if liberals think it’s very strange for feminists to work with conservatives, they should probably stop telling us to “drink bleach” or looking the other way as online mobs demand that we be fired.

Believe it or not OP, MN used to be a haven for anti-vaxers and supporters of Andrew Wakefield. That passed, hopefully this will too.

Good one, pretending that gender critical feminism is a similar anti-science position! Hahaha, you might want to have a little rethink.

Ah the privilege of being born female.

To subconsciously learn from a young age that looks and youth are the most important aspect of my entire being. To spend my reproductive years having my body policed by others. To become invisible around the age of 40 because we no longer fit the definition of young and attractive. To have every aspect of our parenting dissected and criticised, to be criticised as greedy if we work outside the home, yet lazy if we are a sahm. To have our health issues not taken as seriously as men's, especially when it comes to pain relief.

Yes indeed, what an immense immense privilege it is to be a woman. And that's just in the UK where life is pretty much ok for most of us.