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Original poster

To be baffled by and disappointed with the amount of transphobia on MN?

999 replies

ShutTheFuckUpBarbara · 26/02/2017 11:02

I know I'll get flamed for voicing my opinion on this, but I don't care.

I just don't understand why there is so much hatred for trans people on here.

Yes, some trans activists are extremists and no I don't agree with them, but should all other trans people suffer because of them?

I get that there are issues that need to be addressed, as highlighted by recent items in the news and recent threads (which prison should trans people be sent to, can a MTW be a girl guide leader and various others). I don't have a solution for these, but I feel that as a society we should work together to make it work, rather than just spout hatred and insults.

It is especially disappointing as there are a lot of people in the trans community suffering mental health issues, often as the result of how they are being treated, and MN is usually a safe haven for people with MH issues.

I used to enjoy reading the Feminism chat (or most of it anyway), now almost every thread on there is transphobic Sad

Most of us here are women, a lot of us are from ethnic minorities, or have a disability, a lot of us have been discriminated against, we know what it feels like so why do it to others??

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
MercyMyJewels · 26/02/2017 15:55

Do we have to start rewriting poetry?

What about "A man's a man for a' that". Burns was a transphobic bigot and yes he like being with the lassie too

Atenco · 26/02/2017 15:56

Sorry Bitof, but I just wanted to address this comment: I think very few people support the extreme trans activists. They are the vanguard of the movement and as such are extremists. This is common in revolutionary movements. Over time their rhetoric and influence will fade

The problem, to my mind, is not the rhetoric, it is having weird ideas enshrined in law, such as the right of man to identify as a woman just on his say-so, and, worst of all, children being administered unnecessary medical treatments that will cause them life-long health problems, because it is uncool to suggest they and in some cases their parents might need to have their gender dysmorphia treated in some other less drastic way.

The only way I know of to address this extremism is to keep on talking and campaigning, not against transgender people per se, but against this madness that, among other things, is exposing children to having their health destroyed. Really not on the same level as Baa Baa Black Sheep

PageStillNotFound404 · 26/02/2017 15:56

I think it says quite a lot about what men have not done to break down the rigidity of traditional masculinity, and it is frustrating to me that it is women, as usual, who are struggling with this and not men going 'hang on, what is it about male roles, lives, expectations that cause a proportion of us, and particularly a proportion of those of us with autism, to literally castrate ourselves rather than live within them'?

This is an excellent point.

OurBlanche · 26/02/2017 15:57

TheOnly I realised that about a heartbeat after I posted Grin Blush

CoteDAzur · 26/02/2017 15:59

Hump - "OurBlanche - I don't have a clear definition for 'woman' and 'female'. This is partly because I have a good friend who was born without ova or the ability to bear children."

You need to read the definition again:

Female = Of the sex that can bear young or make eggs.

Your friend is still of the sex that can make eggs and bear young - i.e. She is female.

She is not of the sex that can make sperm - i.e. She is not male.

Is it clearer now?

NotDavidTennant · 26/02/2017 16:00

Intersex is a chromosomal accident.

Not all intersex people have chromosal abnormalities.

jellyfrizz · 26/02/2017 16:03

*Intersex is a chromosomal accident.

Not all intersex people have chromosal abnormalities.*

Are you suggesting that people with hormonal issues or physical deformities are intersex?

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 26/02/2017 16:03

I don't get the argument that "I don't care about men in women's showers. Rape and sexual assault are against the law. We can report any problems."

Because one of the first, most important things if you're trying to reduce risk is prevention. We don't say that because it's illegal to blow up planes we can forget about airport security. We don't say that because cheating in exams is forbidden we'll let people do them at home with no oversight. We do things all the time with the specific purpose of preventing crimes or lesser infringements.

Men are kept out of women's facilities by a strong social taboo. If we change this so that any man who says so can access those spaces as of right - and this is on the cards - there will be more rapes and assaults. There will also be a rise in nasty unreported intrusions, where women are made vulnerable or disgusted by male intrusion and creepiness, just not enough or not enough evidence to call the police.

Pacha11 · 26/02/2017 16:03

I haven't seen any hatred on here. Plus, I haven't known one trans person in my whole life, so they are not that MANY as some make them to be. People are opposing propaganda and giving rights to minorities whilst in the process taking these away from the majority.

lifeissweet · 26/02/2017 16:04

Going back a bit to the posters saying that defining 'woman' is complicated...

One question:

If we don't know what a woman is, how can anyone be sure that they are one?

That paradox always flummoxes me.

'I feel like a woman'

'What is a woman?'

'I don't know. It's complicated.'

CoteDAzur · 26/02/2017 16:09

"I have no issue with either cis gender or transgender, both are factual statements of different types of women in our society."

There is no male "type" of woman. The idea is absurd and is an exercise in double-think.

You cannot have a male cow. There are no male hen. And similarly, there is no such thing as a male woman.

OurBlanche · 26/02/2017 16:10

Not all intersex people have chromosal abnormalities. I can't think of another way to describe it, without a huge tract of biological detail I don't fully understand.

How about the official sentence: “Intersex” is a general term used for a variety of conditions in which a person is born with a reproductive or sexual anatomy that doesn’t seem to fit the typical definitions of female or male. www.isna.org/faq/what_is_intersex

annandale · 26/02/2017 16:10

You're right prawn. I get frustrated that the toilet issue is always so far up the agenda, maybe I should keep it in my mind as the women's shelter issue as it's the same legal problem.

OurBlanche · 26/02/2017 16:11

jellyfrizz who were you aiming that at? I am not sure what you are trying to insinuate!

TheOnlyLivingBoyinNewCork · 26/02/2017 16:13

So women who were born as women are not allowed to define what a woman, is, but women who were born as men are allowed to. And if women have a problem with that, they are transphobic.

And its not about the erosion of womens rights? Hmm

BeyondUnderthinking · 26/02/2017 16:15

Nearly 500 posts in and still no definition of woman that includes both born women and mtt while not being circular nor based on offensive stereotypes and preferably based on some sort of empirical evidence

TheOnlyLivingBoyinNewCork · 26/02/2017 16:17

There isn't a definition that covers all that. Which is why the definitions of woman and transwoman are both perfectly adequate and accurate.

jellyfrizz · 26/02/2017 16:19

OurBlanche, it was in response to NotDavidTenant.

People with genital deformities or even PCOS are often co-opted under the intersex banner.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 26/02/2017 16:20

Time to link to this masterly take down of trans ideology by an interviewer on Fox News (ffs).

Thingsgettingstranger · 26/02/2017 16:22

I agree that 'transgender' has now become an umbrella term. Ive noticed that hose calling themselves 'transgender' are the ones shouting people down and are the tweens/teens. However those calling themselves 'transsexuals' like my son are the more genuine ones iykwim. Might just be me but I've never heard a TransActivists call themselves a transsexual.

BevGoldbergsSister · 26/02/2017 16:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OurBlanche · 26/02/2017 16:27

I thought I'd given it a good try Beyond

'woman' of any sort is a subset of female (given the definition of the sex that can give birth etc):

female = woman;
Trans / woman by "gender choice" = woman but not female.
Woman = social construct, being female, or having the appearance of being a female.

But maybe I have missed something... it all seems so bloody torturous now!

Oh yes! Lion = woman
According to Helen Reddy!

Pacha11 · 26/02/2017 16:29

So you ladies are wondering what a woman is? Really?

A woman has a vagina and breasts. This is what a woman is.

Everything else is either a man or an abnormality.

OurBlanche · 26/02/2017 16:33

I think you have seriously misunderstood the question Pacha

We ladies may have been having what is known as an hypothetical moment, side references to transactivist stupidity and a nod to the stupidity of having to define the bloody word in any way whatsoever!

SacharissaCrisplock · 26/02/2017 16:33

Haven't caught up fully but I posted once to agree with the OP but not since.

The main reason is that I'm not eloquent enough to explain my point of view and to robustly debate with people without getting frustrated at my inability to say what I mean and I'm not good enough to come up with the right arguments.

I suspect I'm not the only one in that position too.

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