To be baffled by and disappointed with the amount of transphobia on MN?

[ShutTheFuckUpBarbara]

I know I'll get flamed for voicing my opinion on this, but I don't care.

I just don't understand why there is so much hatred for trans people on here.

Yes, some trans activists are extremists and no I don't agree with them, but should all other trans people suffer because of them?

I get that there are issues that need to be addressed, as highlighted by recent items in the news and recent threads (which prison should trans people be sent to, can a MTW be a girl guide leader and various others). I don't have a solution for these, but I feel that as a society we should work together to make it work, rather than just spout hatred and insults.

It is especially disappointing as there are a lot of people in the trans community suffering mental health issues, often as the result of how they are being treated, and MN is usually a safe haven for people with MH issues.

I used to enjoy reading the Feminism chat (or most of it anyway), now almost every thread on there is transphobic

Most of us here are women, a lot of us are from ethnic minorities, or have a disability, a lot of us have been discriminated against, we know what it feels like so why do it to others??

Have some of the posters here seen how transactivists talk about women/feminists? Rape threats, "die in a fire" etc... and this isn't one or two extreme occasions, it happens a lot.

Not that trans activists necessarily represent most transpeople, but then a woman responsing to this is just responding to it, not representing all feminists/all of MN/whatever. And it's these transactivists that for some reason are able to dictate changes to the law, much, much faster than any rights campaigns have in the past.... They are being listened to, the other side of the debate is not, of course we need to shout!

Believing a man can become a women is batshit insane. I will play along a bit for people with genuine gender dysphoria... although Im not convinced it's healthy tbh... but honestly! Women and girls get murdered for being female and we are supposed to pretend that distinction doesn't exist?

Btw - FishInAWetsuit Transgender people are suffering because of them. There is now very little mental health help for transgender people because of them.

Nope. Those on here who disagree with the trans narrative call for MORE mental health help, not less. Help to come to terms with reality, and to cope in this stupidly gendered society, rather than unnecessary surgery.

It's the transactivists who want transgenderism completely separated from mental health, and argue that any counselling around gender issues is akin to "conversion therapy". It is they who have made sure there is no mental health support. [The general crapness/underfunding of mental health services has probably contributed too.]

Also, as I said on another thread - there is a difference between Islamophobia and simply not being Muslim/not agreeing with Islam. In the same way there is a difference between transphobia and simply not agreeing with trans ideology. Doesn't mean I want them discriminated against in terms of getting jobs, access to housing, or anything. But if Muslims started expecting their beliefs to trump mine - imposing Sharia law, for example - I'd object. In the same way, I object now that transactivists are expecting their beliefs to trump mine including ignoring biological sex.

the reason the term intersex exists is because there are two sexes, with matching genetalia and chromosomes, and then a small percentage of people born in ways that don't quite match up with that. It is an abnormality in the strict sense of the word.
Intersex people do not, I believe, wish to be aligned with the transgender movement.

Mercy do you mean putting Ian Huntley in prison? Using the rule of law to imprison someone is not denying them human rights. I was not suggesting Ian Huntley be put in a psychiatric hospital because he/she (I don't know - so I'll use both) is trans but because he/she murdered children.

I don't know what prison he is in I trust the authorities to deal with the situation appropriately. I was saying that facilities exist that could deal with the situation.

Please, feel free to call me transphobic and goad me you are simply illustrating the point the OP made.

What is the problem with having a third, gender neutral bathroom or space? Male, Female, Unisex.

YY. I will campaign for that.

Btw - FishInAWetsuit Transgender people are suffering because of them. There is now very little mental health help for transgender people because of them.

Nope. Those on here who disagree with the trans narrative call for MORE mental health help, not less. Help to come to terms with reality, and to cope in this stupidly gendered society, rather than unnecessary surgery.

I was talking about transactivists. My child has felt this way for many years now. Before the activists got involved we were doing OK. Things were hard, but ok. Since the activists started 'helping' things have got infinitely worse.

I don't know what prison he is in You should, I posted it!

You were mistaken!

I don't know what prison he is in I trust the authorities to deal with the situation appropriately. I was saying that facilities exist that could deal with the situation.

Do you always "trust the authorities"? How naive.

There appears to be a belief that only 2 sexes exist. I think intersex muddies the issue. This being the case why the absolute insistence on my trans threads that there are only two sexes.

As I said I am not an expert but it seems obvious that having to choose boy or girl is complicated by nature and society.

But in this case, they are probably right. He is a man and a murderer and so is in a category A male prison!

His mental capacity was ascertained before he stood trial.

YY. I will campaign for that.

Me too. You get the sign boards, I'll get the paint. Or better still, let's campaign against the acceptability of male violence so that any man who does not fit the stereotype does not need to be afraid of using male facilities.

That would challenge the underlying belief here that anyone not fitting that properly masculine stereotype should colonise women's facilities, and women's role in society is to accommodate and mop up everyone else's mess, pick up the slack and STFU.

The OP made a silly non point, so if you're expecting people to care what she thinks you're wasting your time.

But it's not nice to be called transphobic and bigoted is it?

Sorry that last was to Bitof.

Intersex babies have always been born. Gender fluidity is part of nature. It really is not as simple as boy or girl.

People with disabilities have always been born. Does that mean I can identify as disabled and enter the Paralympics and claim disability benefit if I feel like it? If not, why not?

Well that's me out for now.

These threads always descend into insults and bullying. I have tried to engage and make points. I am not an expert, I am trying to make sense of complex issues.

OP - you are entirely correct. It is a shame this thread developed the way we all knew it would.

DJ trans women vehemently oppose a "third" category. For many accessing women's spaces is as much about validation as it is feeling "safe".

There appears to be a belief that only 2 sexes exist. There are only 2 sexes

I think intersex muddies the issue. Not really. It is long known that 'nature' can make mistakes and intersex is a chromosomal error.

This being the case why the absolute insistence on my trans threads that there are only two sexes. your threads or any threads.

Cost, DJBaggySmalls.

Followed by all the lawsuits from transgender people citing discrimination as they're now 'a woman' they demand the right to use a women's toilet.

Yes, I agree. But if it was non negotiable that women's feelings and rights were to be respected (which it self evidently isn't) they would have to find a solution which didn't disadvantage women, whatever the cost or problems.

Bitof
But Ian Huntley is identifying as a woman, and the legislation could very soon be that he be able to access the facility that matches his gender identity.

You do haver a bit of a thin skin my dear. I said nothing 'goady'. Time for a ?

OurBlanch the my was a typo.

You extreme reaction to a typographical error sums up this thread!

And in addition to what ourblanche says most intersex people resent being co-opted by the trans activists

Mercy "You do haver a bit of a thin skin my dear. I said nothing 'goady'. Time for a brew?"

Does this^ class as goady?

These threads always descend into insults and bullying. I have tried to engage and make points. I am not an expert, I am trying to make sense of complex issues.

You seem to have conveniently forgotten that gender critical feminists were the ones being insulted. The entire premise of this thread was to call people transphobic.