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Original poster

To be baffled by and disappointed with the amount of transphobia on MN?

999 replies

ShutTheFuckUpBarbara · 26/02/2017 11:02

I know I'll get flamed for voicing my opinion on this, but I don't care.

I just don't understand why there is so much hatred for trans people on here.

Yes, some trans activists are extremists and no I don't agree with them, but should all other trans people suffer because of them?

I get that there are issues that need to be addressed, as highlighted by recent items in the news and recent threads (which prison should trans people be sent to, can a MTW be a girl guide leader and various others). I don't have a solution for these, but I feel that as a society we should work together to make it work, rather than just spout hatred and insults.

It is especially disappointing as there are a lot of people in the trans community suffering mental health issues, often as the result of how they are being treated, and MN is usually a safe haven for people with MH issues.

I used to enjoy reading the Feminism chat (or most of it anyway), now almost every thread on there is transphobic Sad

Most of us here are women, a lot of us are from ethnic minorities, or have a disability, a lot of us have been discriminated against, we know what it feels like so why do it to others??

OP posts:
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nachogazpacho · 26/02/2017 13:59

Everyone should be equal though. And as soon as someone behaves in an abusive, aggressive manner they should be punished. And we should make all our spaces safer - male and female. I know from personal experience that it isn't just males that can sexually assault you.

I know that we are a far way away from women being equal to men. And that part of this is defining ourselves to assert our equality. But the destination years in the future should be that we are all to be treated equally as human beings. And that we should fear abusers, not all males.

However, all that said I don't think it is right to force people to share a space if they are genuinely fearful. I think that it is a journey that at some point we'll be able to work out who we should be fearful of.

Thingsgettingstranger · 26/02/2017 14:00

There's a FtT 'trans CHILD' in the USA who went on testosterone and had SURGERY at 13 years of age. They 'came out' when they were 11. There is a massive increase in CHILDREN being forced down a route because they don't fit the soriental expectations of they're sex. They're being handed harmful puberty blockers. They're just kids! Why arent anorexics (which also consists of body dysmorphia) given surgeries to 'align their bodies with their minds'? By all means do what makes you happy but children need space to just be themselves, not shoved down a path of hormones, surgeries and isolation.

OurBlanche · 26/02/2017 14:01

Ultimately anyone expressing moderate views ends up getting shouted down and gives up, and I would be amazed if this thread doesn't go the same way. As one of those usually expressing moderate views I am rarely shouted down and I haven't gone away.

I am often ignored! But many posters here have been patient with me as I slowly got to grips with why transactivists need to be challenged. No one called me any names, some may have questioned my naivety, but in a robust and emotion laden topic I would expect that.

WhisperedLoudest · 26/02/2017 14:01

mega the reason we concentrate on the "extremists" is because they are the Ines shaping legislation. They are not outliers.

I absolutely don't want to shame or hurt anyone, I accept and support any individuals right to dress and present as they wish. I absolutely don't think people should be discriminated over the way they look.

but I will fight -and loudly- to ensure that my DDs have a right to chose to be examined physically by someone of the same biological sex if that is what they wish.

Thingsgettingstranger · 26/02/2017 14:02

*societal

BevGoldbergsSister · 26/02/2017 14:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Twogoats · 26/02/2017 14:03

Why yes, let's just put Ian Huntley in a female prison then. What could possibly go wrong?

venusinscorpio · 26/02/2017 14:03

However, all that said I don't think it is right to force people to share a space if they are genuinely fearful.

It's not just about "fear". It's about privacy, dignity and respect for women's boundaries, human rights and feelings.

Bitofacow · 26/02/2017 14:04

Rampton is a secure mental health facility. It is has both male and female patients. A trans person could be imprisoned in this facility.

Am I still missing the point?

venusinscorpio · 26/02/2017 14:06

FGM happens to some people. No way of defining who exactly, just some unfortunate people.

Some people die in childbirth. No way of defining who.

Some people rape and murder some other people. No way of defining.

YYY. Seriously people. Just have a think about what those statements mean for women.

DJBaggySmalls · 26/02/2017 14:06

Are women just being silly for wanting single sex wards in hospital?

venusinscorpio · 26/02/2017 14:07

Why isn't Lian at Rampton already then?

user36 · 26/02/2017 14:08

*Rampton is a secure mental health facility. It is has both male and female patients. A trans person could be imprisoned in this facility.

Am I still missing the point?*

Officially, trans isn't a mental health condition so why would somebody be in a secure mental health facility just because they're trans?

MercyMyJewels · 26/02/2017 14:08

Wouldn't that be denying his human rights as a woman Bitof? A very transphobic suggestion

Bitofacow · 26/02/2017 14:08

Intersex babies have always been born. Gender fluidity is part of nature. It really is not as simple as boy or girl.

OurBlanche · 26/02/2017 14:09

He is currently in Frankland, Category A men's prison.

Rampton is a high security hospital!

WhisperedLoudest · 26/02/2017 14:10

Those of you who agree that trans women should have access to women's space are you also in favour of removing biological-based distinctions totally?

So:
No girls/boys schools
No female/male sports teams
No segregated jails
Rapes crises centres open to anyone.
No ability to request a physician or counsellor of a specific born sex.

Because that is what self identification means.

TheOnlyLivingBoyinNewCork · 26/02/2017 14:10

Intersex babies have always been born. Gender fluidity is part of nature. It really is not as simple as boy or girl

Intersex babies are very rare, and are a biological malfunction. Gender is not part of nature at all, sex is.
It really is as simple as male or female, except in the rare cases of true intersex.

venusinscorpio · 26/02/2017 14:12

Are you saying Lian should be transferred to a mental health institution from a regular prison just because she is a transwoman? Oh dear oh dear, that's a bit bigoted of you!

BertrandRussell · 26/02/2017 14:12

"I just don't understand why there is so much hatred for trans people on here"

Tell you what- you show me some and I'll try to explain.

rumblingDMexploitingbstds · 26/02/2017 14:12

It's also how much the worrying stuff is creeping into every day normality without being challenged. On my facebook feed the other day, from a totally innocuous regular poster, popped up a glitzy, cheerful 'what gender are you?' quiz. It assigned you percentages of 'male' and 'female' - ie you are 20% female and 80% male based on your answers.

Guess how they allocated the percentages? The language being used was that women are emotional and look glam, and men like getting dirty and are logical. This was seen as just a bit of fun.

I thought until a couple of years ago that this kind of crap was long since left behind in the 20th century, and that any person should be able to wear whatever they wanted, present themselves however they wanted and that no one should be limited by outdated socially stereotypical thinking, and everyone has the right to be safe and free from censure, harassment, violence and exclusion for not obeying social rules. I'll stand up for anyone at any time dealing with that. I'll march for that, I'll fight for that, because everyone should have that right.

But now happy sparkly quizzes that people are messing around with are telling you that if you don't look glam and think logically then you're not actually female. And that's ok. Because 'female' is now acceptably and fashionably defined as 'performing femininity' - we're back to women being defined as glam, ditzy, emotional airheads. How is that not dangerous? And resisting that, does actually make me transphobic, and oddly enough that means I am not entitled to be free from censure, harassment and exclusion if I'm open about this, because I'm not obeying a currently fashionable social rule.

This isn't social justice, it's batshit. This has to be open to debate and not slammed as 'if you're off message or questioning right think you have no right to a voice'.

FishInAWetSuitAndFlippers · 26/02/2017 14:13

Bitofa I can't find where you have been insulted. If you point it out then I will report it.

I see some posters making the point that, due to the way things are now, being transgender is no longer deemed a mental health concern, it is apparently transphobic to suggest that it is, it is also no longer a physical thing, it is simply a feeling, this is where we are now.

madamginger · 26/02/2017 14:13

I had an argument yesterday on Facebook and was told that Caitlyn Jenner doesn't have male privilege because he is now she. Of course she does, she was a man for 60 years and has all the privileges that came with that.
Yet again men are using their privilege to take away the hard won rights of women and you are shouted at, called terf and much worse, threatened with violence and rape for disagreeing with them. The trans movement can shout very loudly and unfortunately 50% of the worlds population is being thrown under the bus in the process.

venusinscorpio · 26/02/2017 14:13

Apparently Lian was sectioned at Rampton when first arrested to decide if fit for trial. But she's not in it now, Bitof.

OurBlanche · 26/02/2017 14:13

Intersex babies have always been born. Gender fluidity is part of nature. It really is not as simple as boy or girl. Again... what logic are you applying?

Gender is wholly a social construct.

Did you mean something else?

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