Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be baffled by and disappointed with the amount of transphobia on MN?

999 replies

ShutTheFuckUpBarbara · 26/02/2017 11:02

I know I'll get flamed for voicing my opinion on this, but I don't care.

I just don't understand why there is so much hatred for trans people on here.

Yes, some trans activists are extremists and no I don't agree with them, but should all other trans people suffer because of them?

I get that there are issues that need to be addressed, as highlighted by recent items in the news and recent threads (which prison should trans people be sent to, can a MTW be a girl guide leader and various others). I don't have a solution for these, but I feel that as a society we should work together to make it work, rather than just spout hatred and insults.

It is especially disappointing as there are a lot of people in the trans community suffering mental health issues, often as the result of how they are being treated, and MN is usually a safe haven for people with MH issues.

I used to enjoy reading the Feminism chat (or most of it anyway), now almost every thread on there is transphobic Sad

Most of us here are women, a lot of us are from ethnic minorities, or have a disability, a lot of us have been discriminated against, we know what it feels like so why do it to others??

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Draylon · 26/02/2017 13:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

venusinscorpio · 26/02/2017 13:45

Lol, Bitof thinks Ian Huntley's transition is not relevant to this argument.

nachogazpacho · 26/02/2017 13:46

I agree it is much more than about toilets. What I think is it is about respect and respecting people's wishes. So, a kind transgender person who approaches the oap in care and that oap is afraid of them because they are male then I would hope most kind people would say 'ok, let's find someone else to do it' and not think about being discriminated against. But then like a pp said, maybe we're not there yet. That's the sort of thing I hope we move forward to - understanding eachother's fears and respecting them but also being aware of what it is we actually need to fear. It's not males themselves but the ones that are aggressive. Like schools, care homes are working towards being much safer places for vulnerable adults and so the risks should in theory reduce (record checks, whistle blowing, not being alone with someone when washing them, cctv etc etc).

TheOnlyLivingBoyinNewCork · 26/02/2017 13:48

However, an aggressive male is a huge risk in those spaces. It's not the penis that is the problem, it's the aggression. Same as you get females who are aggressive and they have no penis. I remember some really horrible assaults in school for example of girls attacking other girls. What about the celeb who punched the toilet attendant? It's not the penis that we need to fear, it's the aggressive people we need to worry about penis or no penis

I'm not going to get raped by a woman though, am I? I can assure you that it is generally the penis, and its owner, that is the problem.

We have fought for so long and so hard to get the advances we have, and they are relatively new. We have no choice but to fight back against those who are trying to erode those rights for reasons of their own.

Megatherium · 26/02/2017 13:48

YANBU. There seems to be something amounting to an obsession about trans issues round here, and discussions always centre on the extreme activists whilst ignoring the undoubted fact that the vast majority of trans people simply live their lives inoffensively and unobtrusively, and if anything as a group are considerably less of a danger to society than the non-trans community. Ultimately anyone expressing moderate views ends up getting shouted down and gives up, and I would be amazed if this thread doesn't go the same way.

formerbabe · 26/02/2017 13:49

I don't think questions like 'what is a woman' have a simple answer

I think that question has an extremely simple answer actually.

aspen34 · 26/02/2017 13:50

It would appear on the surface that there is some discrimination and negativity. However, it's a tricky subject I think. I don't understand it all wholly or the legal implications (lots of discussion about this usally). My teenage daughter has a trans friend and she has tried to explain it to me. I don't think I'm transphobic at all. I read the threads with interest, but don't have enough knowledge to comment.

BeyondUnderthinking · 26/02/2017 13:50

"as a group are considerably less of a danger to society than the non-trans community"

I'm looking forward to reading all these studies that are going to be linked. No doubt this comment will be seen as me "shouting down" though. :)

aspen34 · 26/02/2017 13:51

usually*

venusinscorpio · 26/02/2017 13:51

It's a tricky question to answer without getting into an intense philosophical discussion! I guess I'm just saying that I find it hard to pinpoint what makes someone 'a woman', - I'm not sure where I stand in essentialism is general, not just in relation to gender.

Don't you think that makes any meaningful analysis of women's issues impossible? How can it work when you don't know what a woman is? And the existence of a tiny proportion of intersex people does not mean that the vast vast majority of human beings are not sexually dimorphic. You've bought wholesale into the trans rhetoric.

venusinscorpio · 26/02/2017 13:52

Fucking hell I am shit with italics today!

venusinscorpio · 26/02/2017 13:53

You're a mean haterrr beyond.

TheOnlyLivingBoyinNewCork · 26/02/2017 13:53

I find the notion that its impossible to define what a woman is to be seriously offensive to women as a group.

Bitofacow · 26/02/2017 13:54

Lol Venus yet again proves my point.

Why come on a thread where when you engage after you have been encouraged to do so you are laughed at!

Re Ian Huntley. He has the right to transition then he would be moved to a high security women's prison or mental health facility. This is an issue because...........

user36 · 26/02/2017 13:54

MN is often too focused on MTTs in women's spaces. It is an issue but trans is doing a lot more harm than that.

The majority of FTTs are ex-lesbians. The trans agenda is hugely homophobic. Being a butch woman or effeminate man is a taken as a sign that you're actually trans. Then you have FTTs who complain gay men won't have sex with them (anal is anal, right?) and MTTs who think lesbians should give ladydick a try (it's just a big clit).

Children are being experimented on. In the UK, at least one 12-year-old girl is on testosterone. Underage girls have been given double mastectomies. Why aren't we letting these children get tattoos, have sex and drive if they're such good decision makers? Nobody knows the long-term effects of puberty blockers because they've never been used in such high numbers but they're being handed out like sweets. The Tavistock clinic themselves say they don't know why numbers of referrals have soared and why 50% of their patients show signs of autism. The experts don't know what's going on yet still they hand out the blockers.

Again and again, the false suicide stat is wheeled out and parents are asked if they want a dead daughter/son or a living son/daughter. Emotionally blackmailed into letting their child transition.

It's about a lot more than toilets.

venusinscorpio · 26/02/2017 13:55

Why are you calling Ian Huntley a he, Bitof? You terrible transphobic bigot!

FishInAWetSuitAndFlippers · 26/02/2017 13:56

Ultimately anyone expressing moderate views ends up getting shouted down and gives up, and I would be amazed if this thread doesn't go the same way.

This isn't really true at all.

I am on a lot if these threads. I express views that aren't agreed with sometimes, and am never shouted down. I engage in a discussion rather than throw a comment in and say I'm going to ignore any replies though.

Sometimes my view changes, sometimes the other persons does, more often than not it's left with an understanding of each others views, but an agree to disagree type comment.

There isn't 'shouting down', there is a lot of difficult questions that people seem unwilling or unable to answer that are always perceived as shouting down though.

BeyondUnderthinking · 26/02/2017 13:56

FGM happens to some people. No way of defining who exactly, just some unfortunate people.

Some people die in childbirth. No way of defining who.

Some people rape and murder some other people. No way of defining.

venusinscorpio · 26/02/2017 13:56

And you deadnamed.

BeyondUnderthinking · 26/02/2017 13:57

"mental health facility"

Transphobe.

OurBlanche · 26/02/2017 13:57

Re Ian Huntley. He has the right to transition then he would be moved to a high security women's prison or mental health facility. This is an issue because........... Think about it! Seriously... stop and analyse the logic you are applying there!

Draylon · 26/02/2017 13:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

venusinscorpio · 26/02/2017 13:58

There isn't 'shouting down', there is a lot of difficult questions that people seem unwilling or unable to answer that are always perceived as shouting down though.

Yep. People get offended that they can't defend their own opinions robustly against any challenge because just perhaps they haven't actually given the issues much thought and don't really know what they're talking about.

Draylon · 26/02/2017 13:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bitofacow · 26/02/2017 13:59

%FishInAWetSuitAndFlippers*

Ultimately anyone expressing moderate views ends up getting shouted down and gives up, and I would be amazed if this thread doesn't go the same way.

This isn't really true at all

Really? Because if you read the thread I have just been insulted.

I was encouraged to engage. I have done. I have been mocked and called names.