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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Rock and a hard place - My dog and new baby

707 replies

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 10:29

Perhaps AIBU is the wrong place to post this, as people can be very scathing. Please be honest but gentle with me!

Sorry this is so long.....

I rescued my dog over 7 years ago, when he was 8 months old. He'll be 8 years old in a few months time. He is a large cross breed (two guard breeds) and weighs over 40kg. He was poorly bred and poorly socialised and has been mentally screwed up by his bad start. He had multiple homes in his short life before coming to us. He did not go through a proper rescue centre and if he had a proper behavioural assessment, I strongly suspect he would have been put down. He would not have been rehomable - not because he's excessively aggressive, but few rescues will home dogs with even the slightest aggression.

His aggression is fear based. He's scared of strangers and other dogs. If properly introduced to a person or another dog, he's fine. In fact, he's a total baby and as soon as you have his trust, he'll love you forever. We spent so much time and money over the years on behaviourists, trainers and socialisation classes. He improved a lot, but he will always be difficult. We always walk him on lead and usually muzzled (as a precaution, he's never actually bitten anyone, the muzzle in more in case of other dogs) and actively avoid other dogs on walks. Walking him is stressful, but we mostly get out and back without incident. We do not bother introducing him to any people he does not need to know, instead we usually shut him away when we have visitors. However if we have overnight guests, he can be successfully introduced with a bit of time and lots of sausage!

Ok, so here's the main issue. When I got him seven years ago, I was not remotely thinking about children and had also expected an 8 month old puppy to turn into a normal dog with enough effort. I underestimated how much genetics would play and that he would never be normal. I thought I could turn him around completely. I couldn't,

I am now pregnant with our first child, although it's early days. It's been a very hard time as I've had hypermesis gravardium and have been (and still am) very unwell. I haven't got out of bed in weeks, and DH is working full time, running the household and sorting out dog. We normally split the dog walking (as Neither of us enjoy doing it due to stress) but he's done it every single day without complaining, even though I know it makes him miserable. I feel awful about it.

Both my SILs and MIL have never had any time for our dog. They aren't animal people and can't forgive him for his issues. As such, we have never introduced him to them. I find them quick to judge him and they all clearly think we should simply get rid of him. Now I'm pregnant, they've already started asking us about what we're going to do. It's so upsetting that I've asked DH to tell them to lay off.

Thing is, DH and I have known for a while that we would need to make a decision eventually, and we've had circular discussions but there's no easy answer.

We've tried for this baby for over a year and it's very much wanted. It's going to be hard enough have a newborn, without the stress about whether or not our own pet will harm it. Also (a more minor issue), our dog can be demanding and pushy. When he wants a walk or food, he will pace and whine, and drive you crackers. This behaviour when I'm sleep deprived with a screaming newborn is likely to push me over the edge.

DH is likely to have to pick up the dog walking for the majority of the time, as I cannot safely walk my dog and a buggy as I need two hands if an off lead dog approaches us (I might be able to cope with a sling, but still doesn't feel safe to carry a newborn and potentially deal with a dog spat). Getting a dog walker is not really an option, as our dog needs 1:1 care from someone who can handle him. I got this dog before DH came along, he's had a very difficult dog thrust on him which he wouldn't have chosen. DH does so well with our dog, but I know he does it for me.

I've tried to consider whether it would be realistic to keep the dog separate from baby during the day? Then let the dog out with us in the evenings? Once the baby has settled and is bigger there's a chance they could be introduced carefully.

Or can they? As I said, my dog is only scared of the unknown and very good when he trusts. The home he came to before is had 3 children under 10 and he was fine with them, but that was years ago. He has never shown aggression to a child, but then again we've never let him very near to them. He's a darling with us, and I do think he has the potential to be fine with our child who will be familiar and constant to him.

But how the hell do we ever find that out? Can I really actually try introducing dog and baby, or is it too risky? I feel like it might be irresponsible to even try.

He's a big strong dog. He occasionally jumps on us if he gets excited. He's heavy and his claws are sharp. He has hurt us both without meaning to. He could easily knock a toddler over, even if being friendly.

Thing is, I love my dog. Nightmare he is, but he's my nightmare and I'm responsible for him. I never wanted to be that person to turf out their pet because a baby turned up. My worries are genuinely to do with safety and whether this situation is manageable.

Thing is, even if we decide we can't do it, he would be impossible to rehome. There are thousands of perfectly nice dogs who can't find homes. My dog will be 8 years old, with aggression issues and also expensive seasonal allergies. Literally, no one would want him. I've had professionals say to be "he's lucky he has you, because I wouldn't put up with him!". I don't want to rehome him, but even if I decide to, I really think we would struggle to find him a home. He'd hate being stuck in kennels long term as he'd be so stressed, and I fear a rescue centre would simply put him down.

If we can't keep him, and no one will take him, the only other option would be to have him put to sleep - which is unthinkable.

I feel totally stuck between a rock and a hard place. DH and I have had this conversation so many times and never come up with an answer, because there isn't one! I think deep down I know it would be difficult, if not impossible, to manage such a situation safely. But I can't bear the idea of turfing out an elderly troubled dog and where on Earth would he go?!

So please be gentle. I'm pregnant, hormonal and ill, and I love my dog very much. So please be honest, but I can't handle a flaming right now.

OP posts:
Zebraar · 27/02/2017 21:42

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

TheLegendOfBeans · 27/02/2017 21:44

^ reported.

lilacmamacat · 27/02/2017 21:46

Not sure if anyone has said this already - sorry, haven't got through full thread - but perhaps it would be worth talking to your vet about it (if you have a good, experienced one). S/he may be able to advise you on who might be able to rehome, if you decide to go down that route.

WTFRUon · 27/02/2017 21:46

Leave the gate open? Do you leave your stair gate open for your kids? Even accidentally? Or are you vigilant enough to remember to shut it because you don't want your toddler to fall down the stairs ? Let's assume as vigilant and fantastic parents we would be extra vigilant and ALWAYS remember to shut the gate !

dowhatnow · 27/02/2017 21:47

Op - for a second I thought you were serious about zebraar Grin

Vermillioncomfyshoes · 27/02/2017 21:48

There are plenty of us unable to leave our kids alone with baby due to behaviour/aggression

Indeed, I'm one of them. And this may surprise you, but I find your comments even more offensive than others will, precisely because of that.

You'll have to work that one out for yourself.

Zebraar · 27/02/2017 21:48

lynnem63 You're just trying to offend me. That's a shame. I love and respect life and wish you a happy one, and hope your bad words to me have made you feel better

Zebraar · 27/02/2017 21:51

thelegendofbeans such a bullying and intimidating culture on here.
I was trying to save a dogs life, but it was never up for saving, was it

Lemondrop09 · 27/02/2017 21:52

Zebraar I was not serious in anyway.

OP posts:
Sprockermum · 27/02/2017 21:53

www.maryburgess.co.uk/hypno4dogs/
Just skipped through this post, so apologies if hypnotherapy has already been suggested.
I wondered about this and found this site on Google....Might be worth a look at....To be honest though I would try anything
I feel for you and your DJ...Flowers

Sprockermum · 27/02/2017 21:55

*DH

Lemondrop09 · 27/02/2017 21:55

Assuming you were being genuine, I would have thanked you for your offer, although you would have been unsuitable for my dog. However, given the way you've just spoken about me, I don't think I can find any gratitude for your misguided offer.

OP posts:
Blueboys · 27/02/2017 21:55

Firstly, congratulations on your pregnancy! Such a sad situation for you to be in on top of everything else. We went through similar. We had a large dog, but he was amazing and super gentle and friendly. But, he was large and pretty full on, soft as anything though. We kept him until our second child was a couple of weeks old and rehomed him through the Dogs Trust. I still hate myself for doing it and still cry about it over three years on. I'm sure many people judge me for it but it was the best thing for our family at the time. We did get him and like you never really thought about having children. He was amazing with our first baby, but sadly our life didn't revolve around him anymore. I still enjoyed lovely walks out with my newborn and my dog, but being a big bouncy dog, there were times I was turning my back on baby in pray to retrieve him from upsetting people who didn't appreciate happy friendly dog. I fell pregnant with no 2 very quickly (assumed it would take some time again) Then it was things like we couldn't fit him in the car with a double buggy to go out for the walks he wanted and needed. My husband was very tired and grumpy and it just all got too stressful. My children had to come first, along with what my dog needed. He went straight to a family on a farm and settled in really well. PTS isn't the worst option for any animal, the uncertainty of their future is. You have given him a lovely life. Dog ownership shouldn't be stressful. I'm hating myself more writing and reading this back, but it was the right thing to do. Being a parent is hard, you don't want anything around to make that harder. Men seem to cope worse with the sleep deprivation, even though they are usually not doing as much with baby in the small hours. But, think how he will feel having to do that walk after an hours sleep, whatever it may be? I loved taking my baby out for walks with our dog, but if walking is stressful as it is, do you really want to throw a baby into that mix. I'm sorry, I'm sure what I have put is no help at all, but I really do sympathise. Good luck in whatever you decide, but please don't think pts is the worst outcome. Very unpleasant, yes but not the worst.

bossyrossy · 27/02/2017 21:57

Only you know your dog. Only you can read his body language. You know when your dog is tense, nervous or acting aggressive. Do you have to decide now? Could you wait until the baby is born and see how he reacts to a new member of the family? Of course you can't take any chances, perhaps he could wear a muzzle in the house until you are sure one way or another. At least then, if you did decide it would be safer to put him to sleep you would know your actions were justified.

umberellaonesie · 27/02/2017 21:57

The fact you are questioning yourself about this situation shows you know the answer.
You know your Dog, you know your situation.
Trust your gut. You will learn as a parent it is your strongest ally.
Make your decision and make your peace with it.

BertrandRussell · 27/02/2017 22:01

" I'm thinking of the dog."
No you're not.You're thinking of your fluffy, anthropomorphic sensibilities. You are the worst type of "animal lover" who puts her own needs above those of the animals you profess to advocate for.

Lynnm63 · 27/02/2017 22:04

You've got a brass neck I'll give you that Zeebaar you are spectacularly rude to the op and then you don't get the sarcasm in the ops reply to you. Of course she's not expecting you to take the dog. It's just you're not helping. If the shit hits the fan with this dog it won't be you picking up the pieces as for comparing a damaged dog with a disabled child that is Either Goady or stupid. I wasn't trying to offend you merely responding to you in the tone you are using to the op. If you love and respect life what about the ops baby or her dh and marriage. I don't imagine her midwife or health visitor will be enamoured with the dog either. The op doesn't need ss getting involved.

PageStillNotFound404 · 27/02/2017 22:05

This is what Victoria Stilwell, internationally renowned canine behaviourist and advocate of counter-conditioning/positive reinforcement (the most successful behaviour modification philosophies for fear aggressive dogs), recommended by another PP back upthread, has to say about it:

"Can I cure my fear aggressive dog?
It is important to note that while the prognosis is good for many fear aggressive dogs there is no 'cure' for aggression. Behavior can never be guaranteed in people or in animals because there are too many outside factors influencing behavior, mood and emotion. Just like people, dogs can simply have a bad day! While there is no 'cure' for fear aggression, there are many positive things you can do to help manage the problem and get your dog to a place where she can exist in harmony within an environment which she previously found scary.

Contact a qualified humane positive trainer to work with you and your dog using humane desensitization techniques. These will give your dog more confidence to cope with her fear.
Find what triggers a reaction from your dog.
When you have identified the trigger, put your dog in the position where she does not have to experience the trigger. Less rehearsal of aggressive behavior means there is more of a chance the behavior begins to decline.
Try and make your environment as predictable as possible. Fear aggressive dogs do not like surprises so keep your dog’s surroundings as calm as possible until she is more confident and able to deal with novelty."

Others may and clearly do feel differently, but for me the first and last sentences contain sufficient qualifications, sufficient ifs about the limitations of any desensitisation - and remembering that this dog doesn't give warnings - to feel that the risk of adding a new baby as a potential trigger is simply too high for comfort, particularly when it means disrupting the environment that he's used to and that almost certainly helps to keep him calm currently.

Singingstarfish · 27/02/2017 22:21

Hi, I'm really sorry to hear what you are going through. I haven't read all the posts, but wanted to say that I have been through this with our dog- a big, nervous rescue. Fortunately things turned out ok for us as our dog was protective and very sweet with the baby, although I never relaxed. It was still stressful wondering 'what if' and thinking i was a terrible parent for the imminent danger I was putting my child in due to not exactly knowing the dog's history. Of course I never left them alone together, which was inconvenient, never just being able to pop upstairs for a couple of minutes without shuttIng dog out the room etc.
I think as you are so completely hype aware of the possible dangers your dog may pose, you do not need to make this decision right now. You will put all the safety measures in place, and I suspect that you will know very quickly if he'll be ok or not.
Good luck - if you haven't seen it, there is a good documentary called And man created Dog.

Shutthefridgedoor · 27/02/2017 22:25

Agree with littledin. I was also in a similar situation but fortunately my dog could be rehomed. I just couldn't risk it, her behaviour was too unpredictable altho she had never bitten she had often pounced. I never regretted what I done and once the baby arrived I knew I'd done the right thing although felt very, very guilty. Once your baby comes a crazy instinct to protect kicks in and I would have been on pins with worry. I used to make people sanitise their bloody hands before holding my baby so god knows what I would have been like with the dog Hmm At least try and rehome whilst u have time. Ull be surprised how many lovely people out there will take a dog with behavioural problems. Speak to a local rescue centre for advice maybe? I don't think I could have put my dog down if I couldn't rehome so maybe trying things like extra high safety gates, muzzle getting him used to a dog walker to take the pressure off havin to walk the dog with demands of new born. Speak to a behaviourist about integration but if this is unlikely and the dog want ever get used to baby then I suppose you would have to put him down as there isn't really another choice. Good luck OP i really do feel for you I hope the sickness soon improves for you too as it's just miserable x

Mustang27 · 27/02/2017 22:50

I think it's really scary the amount of people suggesting rehoming the dog. Clearly never owned a fear aggressive dog, no matter what has been done once there is any aggression it will always be there. it's how you as the owner learn to manage the dog and it's environment that will make a difference. IMO it wouldn't be irresponsible to rehome him as the op will always feel responsible so if he hurts someone, something or himself that will be on her conscience forever. If you do decide to rehome him op I'm sure there are experts out there on this type of rehoming so find them and do it that way. I don't think the dogs trust or any other regular shelter are equipped and as you said he would unlikely pass their behaviour tests any way. Sad

Mustang27 · 27/02/2017 22:52

That's supposed to say "it would be irresponsible"Jesus I'm on fire tonight. I'm going to bed

Dollymouse · 27/02/2017 22:55

That's terribly sad. I can only hope someone as 'rescue minded' as you will consider having your dog. As well as consulting the trainer it would be worth speaking to animal shelters (ones who don't euthanise as a rule) and ask them if they can help you rehome. I am so sad for you - I can see it's such a painful situation and no you don't want to be one of those people - I used to volunteer in cat rescue and we'd get loads of cats given in when babies were born (but who knew the circs?). Our pets are one of the family and you will miss your 'first baby', especially as you have got him/her (sorry can't remember) to such a good place and you know it's not the dogs fault. I would really try for rescue first - we used to home the most wild cats - it used to amaze me! I truly send love to you - but you have to prioritise your baby and your human family - I am sure it will all work out - talk to more people you trust and let us know how it goes xxx

Hamilton13 · 27/02/2017 22:57

We have two dogs and both of them were re homed, yup both of them are nuts, hard to take walks, they like some dogs dont like others( just like we do) but they love love love our son they always have. They are our family and our son is just an extension of us we have baby gates but they are for baby not dogs. Maybe it helps to know we can do it? So can you xx

TwoDogs9 · 27/02/2017 23:02

I haven't read all the responses but if I was in your situation OP I would definitely be steering towards PTS. I know it really hurts and feels totally wrong but you have given your dog eight lovely years that he probably wouldn't have had if you hadn't entered his life. As someone with two dogs and a new baby, I know how difficult it is and neither of my dogs have behaviour issues. Just the logistics of getting out of the house to walk the dogs is really difficult let alone contending with a difficult dog like yours. I think you owe it to yourself and your baby to make the call to the vets. In the long run I think it's kindest for the dog too. He's had those eight wonderful years he wouldn't have otherwise had and it's time to say goodbye. He won't know anything about it when the time comes. I'm not sure how far along you are, but spend the next few weeks/months enjoying your dog and sharing some special times and then make an appointment before baby comes. Thinking of you.

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