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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Rock and a hard place - My dog and new baby

707 replies

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 10:29

Perhaps AIBU is the wrong place to post this, as people can be very scathing. Please be honest but gentle with me!

Sorry this is so long.....

I rescued my dog over 7 years ago, when he was 8 months old. He'll be 8 years old in a few months time. He is a large cross breed (two guard breeds) and weighs over 40kg. He was poorly bred and poorly socialised and has been mentally screwed up by his bad start. He had multiple homes in his short life before coming to us. He did not go through a proper rescue centre and if he had a proper behavioural assessment, I strongly suspect he would have been put down. He would not have been rehomable - not because he's excessively aggressive, but few rescues will home dogs with even the slightest aggression.

His aggression is fear based. He's scared of strangers and other dogs. If properly introduced to a person or another dog, he's fine. In fact, he's a total baby and as soon as you have his trust, he'll love you forever. We spent so much time and money over the years on behaviourists, trainers and socialisation classes. He improved a lot, but he will always be difficult. We always walk him on lead and usually muzzled (as a precaution, he's never actually bitten anyone, the muzzle in more in case of other dogs) and actively avoid other dogs on walks. Walking him is stressful, but we mostly get out and back without incident. We do not bother introducing him to any people he does not need to know, instead we usually shut him away when we have visitors. However if we have overnight guests, he can be successfully introduced with a bit of time and lots of sausage!

Ok, so here's the main issue. When I got him seven years ago, I was not remotely thinking about children and had also expected an 8 month old puppy to turn into a normal dog with enough effort. I underestimated how much genetics would play and that he would never be normal. I thought I could turn him around completely. I couldn't,

I am now pregnant with our first child, although it's early days. It's been a very hard time as I've had hypermesis gravardium and have been (and still am) very unwell. I haven't got out of bed in weeks, and DH is working full time, running the household and sorting out dog. We normally split the dog walking (as Neither of us enjoy doing it due to stress) but he's done it every single day without complaining, even though I know it makes him miserable. I feel awful about it.

Both my SILs and MIL have never had any time for our dog. They aren't animal people and can't forgive him for his issues. As such, we have never introduced him to them. I find them quick to judge him and they all clearly think we should simply get rid of him. Now I'm pregnant, they've already started asking us about what we're going to do. It's so upsetting that I've asked DH to tell them to lay off.

Thing is, DH and I have known for a while that we would need to make a decision eventually, and we've had circular discussions but there's no easy answer.

We've tried for this baby for over a year and it's very much wanted. It's going to be hard enough have a newborn, without the stress about whether or not our own pet will harm it. Also (a more minor issue), our dog can be demanding and pushy. When he wants a walk or food, he will pace and whine, and drive you crackers. This behaviour when I'm sleep deprived with a screaming newborn is likely to push me over the edge.

DH is likely to have to pick up the dog walking for the majority of the time, as I cannot safely walk my dog and a buggy as I need two hands if an off lead dog approaches us (I might be able to cope with a sling, but still doesn't feel safe to carry a newborn and potentially deal with a dog spat). Getting a dog walker is not really an option, as our dog needs 1:1 care from someone who can handle him. I got this dog before DH came along, he's had a very difficult dog thrust on him which he wouldn't have chosen. DH does so well with our dog, but I know he does it for me.

I've tried to consider whether it would be realistic to keep the dog separate from baby during the day? Then let the dog out with us in the evenings? Once the baby has settled and is bigger there's a chance they could be introduced carefully.

Or can they? As I said, my dog is only scared of the unknown and very good when he trusts. The home he came to before is had 3 children under 10 and he was fine with them, but that was years ago. He has never shown aggression to a child, but then again we've never let him very near to them. He's a darling with us, and I do think he has the potential to be fine with our child who will be familiar and constant to him.

But how the hell do we ever find that out? Can I really actually try introducing dog and baby, or is it too risky? I feel like it might be irresponsible to even try.

He's a big strong dog. He occasionally jumps on us if he gets excited. He's heavy and his claws are sharp. He has hurt us both without meaning to. He could easily knock a toddler over, even if being friendly.

Thing is, I love my dog. Nightmare he is, but he's my nightmare and I'm responsible for him. I never wanted to be that person to turf out their pet because a baby turned up. My worries are genuinely to do with safety and whether this situation is manageable.

Thing is, even if we decide we can't do it, he would be impossible to rehome. There are thousands of perfectly nice dogs who can't find homes. My dog will be 8 years old, with aggression issues and also expensive seasonal allergies. Literally, no one would want him. I've had professionals say to be "he's lucky he has you, because I wouldn't put up with him!". I don't want to rehome him, but even if I decide to, I really think we would struggle to find him a home. He'd hate being stuck in kennels long term as he'd be so stressed, and I fear a rescue centre would simply put him down.

If we can't keep him, and no one will take him, the only other option would be to have him put to sleep - which is unthinkable.

I feel totally stuck between a rock and a hard place. DH and I have had this conversation so many times and never come up with an answer, because there isn't one! I think deep down I know it would be difficult, if not impossible, to manage such a situation safely. But I can't bear the idea of turfing out an elderly troubled dog and where on Earth would he go?!

So please be gentle. I'm pregnant, hormonal and ill, and I love my dog very much. So please be honest, but I can't handle a flaming right now.

OP posts:
Zebraar · 27/02/2017 21:04

baggycheeks What's offensive is the idea of killing something because it's too much effort. There are plenty of us unable to leave our kids alone with baby due to behaviour/aggression. The idea that we should just end life because it's too much effort to manage challenging behaviour is offensive, and the ultimate assault

dowhatnow · 27/02/2017 21:06

What happens if you put in 100% effort and then the dog bites?

Cantthinkofabloodyusername · 27/02/2017 21:06

We had a similar situation with our German shepherd, he is wonderful and loving with us but can be difficult to introduce to new people. He can be good with other dogs if introduced very slowly but can also be a nightmare. My sister was convinced he was too dangerous to have around when we had a baby and was very angry that we were even considering keeping him. We did not know how he would react to a baby as he had never (as far as we know) met one. We decided to wait and see what happened when we bought the baby home. I assumed that my motherly instincts would tell me immediately if he would be ok or not, I was right. He ADORED our daughter from the second we came home from the hospital. Obviously we were very careful that she never fell on or pulled at him as you should be with any dog but he is totally in love with her. My daughter is now 4 and they are inseparable. He is such a pushy clumsy oaf but he is so careful with her. My sister who was so insistent that he was going to be dangerous around a baby is totally happy having him around her 2 children now as well! If I had come home and he had shown any sign of being unhappy about the baby I would not have risked it but luckily he made the decision very easy for us x

Olympiathequeen · 27/02/2017 21:06

I would say that if you can't manage the dog and baby safely the kindest thing to do is to have the dog put to sleep. Please don't try to rehome him or put him in a rescue centre. As you say he won't be safe to rehome and his last weeks of life will be beyond miserable.

Littlepiglittlepig3letmeIN · 27/02/2017 21:08

Dogs can get jealous when a baby arrives so as hard as it sounds try to give him attention as well as the baby. Use treats as a reward, if he takes a step towards the baby, say good boy and give him a treat, if he sniffs the baby, say good boy and reward with a treat. This will enforce the fact that the baby is nothing to be scared about, and can actually be a positive thing with treat rewards. Please remember though that sometimes dogs can be unpredictable and if he did spontaneously go for your baby I would consider contacting a charity and if none would help I would contemplate PTS. I'm glad you gave him a home when others may not have given him a chance. If you need any help, feel free to send me a private message and I will do my best to help.

That word if? it's one if too much.
Once it's happened it's happened. Why take that chance?

MidnightVelvetthe7th · 27/02/2017 21:12

Hi op, I've tried to skim the thread, it's very long. It's a shitty situation for all and I'm sorry it's happening to you.

I did have a couple of thoughts, apologies if they have already been mentioned. If you get through the baby, toddler and pre school age without incident then the dog will cause problems for your child socially once they get to school. Your child cannot have a birthday party at home as the dog will not be safe in a houseful of shrieking children. Some parents will turn down play dates and socialising with your child as they will not allow their children in your house. The dog is not compatible with your child's friendships.

Also and I'm sure this has been mentioned, the worst case scenario is that your dog kills your child. Then you have lost both of them rather than just your dog.

I wish there was another way but this dog is not safe with your baby or you in your most vulnerable state. It's all too easy to leave a stair gate open in a sleep deprived haze of exhaustion or to make one mistake, once is enough.

Brokenbutbreathing · 27/02/2017 21:14

I feel so much for your situation. And I have very, very personal experience of this.

The dog might be okay... but it might not. Let me promise you, however much you love the dog, it is not worth the risk.

I speak as a mother who will never forget holding her three year old DC while they were given a general anaesthetic in order to have microfacial surgery to repair dog bites to their face and chin.

The dog in question was our own, which we had bred and had from eight weeks old, a mid sized reliable breed, and which had never displayed any form of aggression to anything or anyone before.

If a calm, gentle, well trained and obedient dog can suddenly snap and do this, please imagine how much worse it could be with a large dog with real social and aggression issues already.

I can hear how much you love your dog and my heart breaks for you. There are very very few instances in this world where I would recommend getting rid of a dog, but this has to be one. It's far, far, far too high a risk. I wish you strength for the journey ahead and huge happiness with your new baby.

Littlepiglittlepig3letmeIN · 27/02/2017 21:15

It's all too easy to leave a stair gate open in a sleep deprived haze of exhaustion or to make one mistake, once is enough.

This is the big worry.
With the best will in the world, we all make mistakes.
All is will take is once.

Yogimummy123 · 27/02/2017 21:15

Definitely try to rehome, there are lots of very big animal lovers out there who would be able to and want to help an animal that would otherwise be put to sleep. I know it's a long shot but not impossible. Otherwise pts is a calm and gentle option. It sounds like your dog is dangerous and unhappy if you do not very carefully control conditions, and you will not be in a position to control conditions with a young child.
Pts is better than the stress and possible injury for all if your dog did lunge, nip or attack anyone - which would lead to him being pts at that more unpleasant point.
It doesn't sound like your dog is basically ok now & wondering how he'll react to your child. It sounds like he's tricky to control & would only be safe with the baby under very strict conditions. Sounds like it would be a stressful nightmare for you whether your dog adapted ok & if you were able to maintain safe conditions or not, as it'll always be a worry & extra work for you. I sometimes struggled keeping my newborn safe from my 3 yo, and could not imagine worrying about a large dog. I don't think pts is unkind, it is gentle & can be done in a living way. I 10000% feel for you & hope you can rehome & maybe regularly visit your dog, but don't fear pts too much because your dog won't suffer & you can make it as loving as possible xx

Lemondrop09 · 27/02/2017 21:16

Zebraar You sound like someone who has a sound understanding of the potential implications of my dog's behaviour, along with a realistic outlook and a rational, non emotional response to the situation. Marvellous? When can you collect?

To everyone else, I am reading all responses and I'm grateful for them. There's so many I can't respond to them all now, some of the shared experiences are lengthy and I want to process them careful.

Oh a Page, don't worry. The words Cesar and Milan are essentially swear words in our house.

OP posts:
WTFRUon · 27/02/2017 21:16

If the dog is 8 now by the time the baby is at school the dog will be pushing 14 (already stated it is a big dog so it is very unlikely to still be alive. What breed is it?

BaggyCheeks · 27/02/2017 21:17

But no one is suggesting killing something because it is too much effort. The OP is trying everything she can, but with this particular dog, nearing the end of it's natural life, what is she meant to do?
Rehoming an elderly dog with all of this particular dogs issues = stress for the dog, reduction in quality of life for the dog.
The OP being home all day on mat leave with a new baby, resulting in lengthy segregation for the dog when it would normally have run of the house = stress for the dog, reduction in quality of life for the dog.
The OP and her DH having to carry on as they are, AND deal with a newborn and be in a constant state of hyper-vigilism to make sure they don't make the one mistake that could lead to unthinkable consequences = Trigger for PND, resentment of the dog, potential for relationship stress, dog gets PTS anyway.

This isn't a matter of the dog inconveniencing someone, this is an animal that has to be micromanaged to within an inch of it's life to have any semblance of normality - they have to take it to a field to exercise it safely for goodness sake - and had the OP not taken it on, it would have died seven years ago. This isn't some idiot realising that they don't want to deal with ordinary pet care with a child around.

It's a crying shame, the OP obviously loves her pet, but there are too many "ifs" in this, specific, situation, and it only needs to go wrong once.

AbernathysFringe · 27/02/2017 21:17

Sorry for excessive post.
For the record, I totally agree with Bertrand that letting children harrass a dog, even one with ZERO issues, is fecking insane. A ticking time bomb. Teach the children respect for both their sake and the dogs.

Frillyhorseyknickers · 27/02/2017 21:17

What happens if you put in 100% effort and then the dog bites?

Having read everything the OP has written, I can't see that she would give her dog the opportunity.

I don't envy your decision at all, I wish you the best of luck whatever you choose.

Lynnm63 · 27/02/2017 21:18

Zeebraar I can't decide if you're a goady fucker or just plain stupid. I guess I'm hoping for GF as terminally stupid would be sad.

DukeOfWhistleton · 27/02/2017 21:19

Oh my goodness my thoughts to you. You're clearly so kind and love your babies, but I think you know what's the sensible choice. Because if something did happen you would feel beyond terrible. The pup will find another home in sure, a forever home and will be loved. Very hard and my heart absolutely goes out to you. Good luck love xxx

Logansnana · 27/02/2017 21:28

Good for you zebraar my thoughts entirely I would have taken the dog on myself if I hadn't got two Neo mastiffs both weighing 13stone that regularly play with my young grandchildren but hate other dogs

Mummyto5kids · 27/02/2017 21:28

Hi I have a neapolitan mastiff who weighs 13 stone that has a few issues thats not his fault when I brought my daughter home from hospital I seperated the dog from the baby via a safety gate when I went out the room and only allowed him near while I was with them both watching carefully. Hes great with my kids and is very protective of them. I still never leave them alone as he doesn't realise just how big he is ( thinks hes a lap dog lol) theres ways around it. u just have to put effort in but it will pay off in the end. Just gradual introductions also do what the lady above said about the doll and the crying sounds.. The more your dog gets used to these sounds the better for when you bring baby home. Also give the dog as much fuss and praise before baby arrived as this will show him hes still important to you and wont feel he is been pushed out and get jealous. Good luck xx

rockcake · 27/02/2017 21:29

Very sad situation OP, but I'd probably pts too, even though I understand how it'll make you feel, like most owners who love their dogs.

Your baby will bring a whole lot of change to your household - even more so as he or she gets bigger, has friends and needs to socialise with other kids and their adults in your home. You don't want to always be anxious about dog's behaviour , the strain on you all would be too great, I think, not to mention the mortification if something did go wrong.
Good luck with this

LookingforMaryPoppins · 27/02/2017 21:29

What a horrible position. I really feel for you and would say that you know your dog better than anyone else, you need to follow your instinct.

We have dogs, the eldest who I had owned from 8 weeks was scared of children, I had my daughter when he was 9 and he wasn't bothered at all. He was protective over me when I was pregnant and totally accepted her. I never left them alone together for obvious reasons but he just accepted her. We rehomed a dog that turned out to be nervous of small children, again, never left them alone (we had two children by that point) but he too adapted and is fine. I had my third child nearly two years ago and none of the dogs batted an eyelid!

Unlike your situation, none of my dogs had aggressive tendencies, all very friendly but are big dogs and can easily knock people / toddlers over.

I think the answer depends on your gut feeling and how feasible it is to never leave the dog and baby together/ for that situation never to occur.

Good luck, I really feel for youxxx

AbernathysFringe · 27/02/2017 21:29

Yes, a stairgate might be left open but presumably you'd know where either the dog or child or both were, you'd be with one or the other. Can also use doors.
As for socialising, we just lock the dog into another part of the house. Music on if you think he won't like the sound of them. But by that point he'll have been around the OP's child for 5 years (and be old as heck).
There are ways round.

ArseHasFallenApart · 27/02/2017 21:30

I have not read the full thread OP OK? If you want to keep him what about getting him used to wearing a basket muzzle now. Only put it on him in the house (or he will associate it with feeling on the 'back foot' when out and about among other dogs) He can pant, drink and vomit through a Baskerville style muzzle. You can feed him gravy bones or other treats through it so he gets used to it in a nice way and gradually and if the worst should happen, he cannot do any terrible damage. There are issues with muzzle wearing.. As I have said they do feel compromised by wearing one but it might be worth making a start now. It might not be the whole solution but part of it. People have a gut reaction to muzzles but I think it might be worth a punt.

Lynnm63 · 27/02/2017 21:32

Mummy have you actually RTFT? The op has SPENT 7 YEARS with the dog at all manner of dog therapists. The dog has severe issues so much so that if the op wasn't such a brilliant dog owner the dog would have most certainly been euthanised years ago. In no way is this situation a must try harder situation.

NataliaOsipova · 27/02/2017 21:37

Why do people keep talking in terms of "fault" and "desert" when talking about a dog? It's nonsensical. The dog does not have the moral compass of a human and is not able to engage in rational argument. Likewise, the OP is not trying to "punish" the dog, nor "be rid" of it. She is merely trying to balance the demands of being a responsible parent with those of being a responsible dog owner and asking herself (and us) the question of whether those two things are compatible and what action she should take.

OP - I am not a dog lover, but I feel for you. You are clearly thoughtful, responsible and kind. On that basis, I'm sure you have all the attributes of a great mum. Best of luck with it all.

Cantusethatname · 27/02/2017 21:38

I don't think you actually have any choice at all.
You know this dog is dangerous. There is ample evidence to prove he is.
If you allow a child under 18 to live with him, the midwife or health visitor will report to Social Services as a safeguarding enquiry.

Is it any easier if it really isn't your decision? Bless you, I do feel for you. The dog is a living creature, you are a loving and sensitive person. But as a pp said, this is a no brainer. Let him go. You don't have a choice.