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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Rock and a hard place - My dog and new baby

707 replies

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 10:29

Perhaps AIBU is the wrong place to post this, as people can be very scathing. Please be honest but gentle with me!

Sorry this is so long.....

I rescued my dog over 7 years ago, when he was 8 months old. He'll be 8 years old in a few months time. He is a large cross breed (two guard breeds) and weighs over 40kg. He was poorly bred and poorly socialised and has been mentally screwed up by his bad start. He had multiple homes in his short life before coming to us. He did not go through a proper rescue centre and if he had a proper behavioural assessment, I strongly suspect he would have been put down. He would not have been rehomable - not because he's excessively aggressive, but few rescues will home dogs with even the slightest aggression.

His aggression is fear based. He's scared of strangers and other dogs. If properly introduced to a person or another dog, he's fine. In fact, he's a total baby and as soon as you have his trust, he'll love you forever. We spent so much time and money over the years on behaviourists, trainers and socialisation classes. He improved a lot, but he will always be difficult. We always walk him on lead and usually muzzled (as a precaution, he's never actually bitten anyone, the muzzle in more in case of other dogs) and actively avoid other dogs on walks. Walking him is stressful, but we mostly get out and back without incident. We do not bother introducing him to any people he does not need to know, instead we usually shut him away when we have visitors. However if we have overnight guests, he can be successfully introduced with a bit of time and lots of sausage!

Ok, so here's the main issue. When I got him seven years ago, I was not remotely thinking about children and had also expected an 8 month old puppy to turn into a normal dog with enough effort. I underestimated how much genetics would play and that he would never be normal. I thought I could turn him around completely. I couldn't,

I am now pregnant with our first child, although it's early days. It's been a very hard time as I've had hypermesis gravardium and have been (and still am) very unwell. I haven't got out of bed in weeks, and DH is working full time, running the household and sorting out dog. We normally split the dog walking (as Neither of us enjoy doing it due to stress) but he's done it every single day without complaining, even though I know it makes him miserable. I feel awful about it.

Both my SILs and MIL have never had any time for our dog. They aren't animal people and can't forgive him for his issues. As such, we have never introduced him to them. I find them quick to judge him and they all clearly think we should simply get rid of him. Now I'm pregnant, they've already started asking us about what we're going to do. It's so upsetting that I've asked DH to tell them to lay off.

Thing is, DH and I have known for a while that we would need to make a decision eventually, and we've had circular discussions but there's no easy answer.

We've tried for this baby for over a year and it's very much wanted. It's going to be hard enough have a newborn, without the stress about whether or not our own pet will harm it. Also (a more minor issue), our dog can be demanding and pushy. When he wants a walk or food, he will pace and whine, and drive you crackers. This behaviour when I'm sleep deprived with a screaming newborn is likely to push me over the edge.

DH is likely to have to pick up the dog walking for the majority of the time, as I cannot safely walk my dog and a buggy as I need two hands if an off lead dog approaches us (I might be able to cope with a sling, but still doesn't feel safe to carry a newborn and potentially deal with a dog spat). Getting a dog walker is not really an option, as our dog needs 1:1 care from someone who can handle him. I got this dog before DH came along, he's had a very difficult dog thrust on him which he wouldn't have chosen. DH does so well with our dog, but I know he does it for me.

I've tried to consider whether it would be realistic to keep the dog separate from baby during the day? Then let the dog out with us in the evenings? Once the baby has settled and is bigger there's a chance they could be introduced carefully.

Or can they? As I said, my dog is only scared of the unknown and very good when he trusts. The home he came to before is had 3 children under 10 and he was fine with them, but that was years ago. He has never shown aggression to a child, but then again we've never let him very near to them. He's a darling with us, and I do think he has the potential to be fine with our child who will be familiar and constant to him.

But how the hell do we ever find that out? Can I really actually try introducing dog and baby, or is it too risky? I feel like it might be irresponsible to even try.

He's a big strong dog. He occasionally jumps on us if he gets excited. He's heavy and his claws are sharp. He has hurt us both without meaning to. He could easily knock a toddler over, even if being friendly.

Thing is, I love my dog. Nightmare he is, but he's my nightmare and I'm responsible for him. I never wanted to be that person to turf out their pet because a baby turned up. My worries are genuinely to do with safety and whether this situation is manageable.

Thing is, even if we decide we can't do it, he would be impossible to rehome. There are thousands of perfectly nice dogs who can't find homes. My dog will be 8 years old, with aggression issues and also expensive seasonal allergies. Literally, no one would want him. I've had professionals say to be "he's lucky he has you, because I wouldn't put up with him!". I don't want to rehome him, but even if I decide to, I really think we would struggle to find him a home. He'd hate being stuck in kennels long term as he'd be so stressed, and I fear a rescue centre would simply put him down.

If we can't keep him, and no one will take him, the only other option would be to have him put to sleep - which is unthinkable.

I feel totally stuck between a rock and a hard place. DH and I have had this conversation so many times and never come up with an answer, because there isn't one! I think deep down I know it would be difficult, if not impossible, to manage such a situation safely. But I can't bear the idea of turfing out an elderly troubled dog and where on Earth would he go?!

So please be gentle. I'm pregnant, hormonal and ill, and I love my dog very much. So please be honest, but I can't handle a flaming right now.

OP posts:
trelawney59 · 27/02/2017 18:13

I have a rescue terrier. When I became pregnant friends automatically put the fear of God in me by saying you'll never be able to keep him with the baby.
Well ......
Another friend gave me a child's doll that cried. I spent the majority of my pregnancy carrying/playing with said doll around my dog. 3 months before due date the crib, bounced and Stokke baby seat were put up so the 'baby' was put in that when I was at home.
After giving birth one of the first babygrows worn was taken to my dog at his kennels. He slept with that grow until he was picked up. My newborn daughter was in the car when he was picked up. After bringing my daughter into the house he came in on a lead for a sniff hello.
He was never left alone with her. She has grown up to know not to go into his bed etc and 3 years on all is well.
My dog was a stray with no known history. I also took advice from our vet about everything. He can't be let off the lead either - no recall and a penchant for small furry animals!
It's been hard work and people probably thought I was mad but I didn't want to give up on my dog. Every situation is unique but just wanted you to know that it's not always necessary to have a one way trip to the vets.

Sally176 · 27/02/2017 18:15

I'm so sorry for your situation, I really feel for you.
Congrats on the amazing baby news. You obviously are concerned about the safety of your family and it sounds as though his behaviour worries you enough to be asking for help.
I'm a little bit shocked at the 'put him to sleep' comments. A vet will never knowingly put down a healthy animal just because they have become an inconvenience. An animal sanctuary will take him in but please do ask your vet for advice or a referral to an animal behaviourist to have him properly assessed and potentially worked with before you make any decision about his future. He loves you and you love him, it sounds as though he had a terrible start to life before he was lucky enough to find you. I do feel as though you made the decision to take him in and it's not his fault that things have changed. Give him a chance xx

Vermillioncomfyshoes · 27/02/2017 18:16

Honestly? I would probably euthanize the dog at this point. He's 8, big and strong, unsocialized, not trustworthy, not trainable by the sounds of it, and you're going to have a baby in the house

This. It's an awful decision to have to make. If you have him PTS, you might regret it from time to time and think, well, it might have been OK if we'd worked at it.

If you don't have him PTS, and something unthinkable happens, you will regret it every day of your life forever. You really cannot take the risk.
I cannot understand the 'give it a try' brigade. I'm pretty good at persevering under difficult circumstances - but here the risk is just too great.

Previously1488218868 · 27/02/2017 18:16

Euthanasia is not the only option. I know someone who runs a sanctuary which is full of happy pets that were unhomeable for various reasons, including those that were considered dangerous because they were nervous and afraid.

BTW, I have just managed to get back into MN after problems changing my e.mail address, I am not a new poster, but had to get a new name as Yahoo does not work on this site, for me at any rate.

Amber70 · 27/02/2017 18:21

No dog is safe or to be trusted with a baby or young child. My heart goes out to you OP, but what a lucky dog. We have the same situation, I have a rescue Giant Schnauzer, 9 years old, fear aggressive. And went through this dilemma. But we still have her and our DD is 19 months old now. I've walker her with the baby in a sling with no problem though I do have to have her on a lead around other people and animals. And I'm not big. We never ever leave her around DD, or any small child. We don't have a big house, but we ensure she has a separate area where she is happy and in the good weather she has a kennel outside where is also happy for a time. We have managed and everyone is happy. That said, you must do what is right for your family. I'm so pleased you wouldn't advertise him for free, too many nasty people out there. Or perhaps speak to your vet, who may know someone who maybe suitable and willing to rehome. If you do decide to PTS, know he's had an amazing life he possibly wouldn't have had otherwise and that you've done it because it's the best decision for him. Good luck.

Playdoughinthecarpet · 27/02/2017 18:22

Hi Lemon, we had our dog who was a bit old and grumpy, 9 when Dd was born. She did occasionally snap but we weren't concerned. When Dd was 18 months old she cornered the dog in the kitchen, nobody's fault, lots of people, furniture etc. I think Dd trod on her tail and the dog bit DD's face. We had to put the dog down. It was heartbreaking. The nip was possibly a warning but an inch from DD's eye. They were a similar height. We couldn't risk DD's wellbeing. Am sorry you are in this situation 💐

MacBaker · 27/02/2017 18:24

I am so so sorry you are having to make this decision. I know how absolutely heartbreaking it is as we were there too. I had my daughter 3 months ago and made the decision that my dog just wasn't going to be able to be apart of our lives, he too had fear aggression. It wasn't fair on him and we wanted him to have the life he deserves. I couldn't bare the thought of him hurting her and then us having to have him put down. We had always had issues but we had learned how to manage them, he was a gorgeous dog he just didn't understand our new baby and most definitely didn't want to share us. We managed to find him a perfect home with people I know will look after him. We regularly get updates and he is outside all day with his new owner where he belongs, so no matter how hard it still is, I know I did the right thing. We were lucky, my PIL offered to have him for the 2 months it took to find him a perfect home. My first thoughts were, no one will have a dog that from first meet appears aggressive, but they adore him. It still isn't easy, our house has never been so full yet so empty with him gone, but both my daughter and him are safe and happy and that's what matters. I hope you manage to sort it. X

TinfoilHattie · 27/02/2017 18:26

Baby trumps dog.

Rehome, put to sleep, but it shouldn't be in your home any more.

MajorSharpesButtons · 27/02/2017 18:29

I can't believe you're still debating this. Put the dog to sleep before it kills your baby.

SusieOwl4 · 27/02/2017 18:30

I have two dogs with no problems but I always keep them out of the way when young children are around . But I am lucky enough to have a room I can do this and they are used to it. Now my grandson is older and the introductions have been slow they are fine but I am always on guard . But if either of my dogs showed any aggression then my grandson would come first. However much I love my dogs my family is my priority . I feel really sad about your dilema but you are the person who knows your dog best and how much effort you have obviously put in , so well done you for giving the dog a happy life that it would not have had. I do know a good dog trainer that I could pm you his Facebook page for general advice if you want just to have a chat?

Esspee · 27/02/2017 18:30

You would never be able to forgive yourself if anything happened to your longed for baby.

Chippednailpolish · 27/02/2017 18:32

Firstly, congratulations on your pregnancy. I don't want to advise you on what you should or shouldn't do with regards to your dog, but as an owner of a very nervous large dog I wanted to let you know how we handled the arrival of our 2 sons with our dog:

We displayed the pram/moses basket and other baby paraphanalia in the house weeks before the babies were due so that our dog was aware that changes were afoot, this gave him time to get used to it.

When the babies were born, my husband brought a blanket home that they had been wrapped in so that the dog could get used to the scent before the baby came home.

On bringing the baby in to the house, the dog was put in a different room until we were ready to introduce it to the baby, an hour or so later.

Luckily our dog accepted the children straight away as part of our house 'pack' and has never shown any agression towards them (although this means he can get protective of them around others - this is something you may want to consider).

Wishing you all the best with whatever you decide.

Cuppaoftea · 27/02/2017 18:32

The situation will become more and more unfair on your DH Op. He will likely need to continue doing all the of the dog walking and most of the care as your pregnancy progresses and after your baby is born for some period of time.

He'll be working full time and then wanting to rush home to spend time with you and your newborn but instead have to spend precious hours giving your dog the exercise it would need after being kept separate all day.

Your dog sounds far too dangerous to live in the same house as a baby/toddler. His size combined with his issues and the fact he lunges with no warning.

As pp have said you've given him a good life.

Flowers
Ang73 · 27/02/2017 18:32

Hi there, I can see what a terrible worry this must be for you, however (if you're like me!) It seems you're thinking too far ahead and getting yourself very upset. I understand you have to consider all possibilities and your baby definitely takes priority but I also understand making a commitment to an animal and how responsible you feel for them.

I had an older cat and a young dog when I was expecting my first baby. I was paranoid that something would happen to the baby as a result of my dog, or cats behaviour. The reality is that the baby will be with you all the time. If the baby is napping in a different room you will have the door closed and monitor on! By the time the baby is crawling, your dog will most likely be very familiar with the little one and accept the baby. Of course there is a chance this might not happen but you will be able to gauge this very quickly. My pets ignored the baby for the first couple of months and were very aware that she was precious - they only ever approached if I encouraged it. I did this in a very controlled way so that the animals felt safe and of course to ensure the baby was safe. Too many people forget that the beloved pet is actually an animal with different behaviour to us and they put children and animals at risk by leaving them unattended together. If you do it correctly, having a pet can be a wonderful experience for a child.

I think you need to give yourself (and the dog) a break. You have a lot going on with a first pregnancy and feeling unwell so this is not a normal situation and everything will be heightened at the moment. Take some time to give yourself space from this and step back from it for a while. You sound like a reasonable and very kind person so I'm sure you'll do the right thing when the time presents itself. Best case scenario, your loving dog will accept the baby into his pack. Best of luck with everything.

Alidoll · 27/02/2017 18:35

Your dog will already know something is up and while he might become a protective "big brother" to your child, would you be able to truly relax when they were both in the same room together? If the answer is no, then I think you know yourself deep down that he can't stay with you and you'd never forgive yourself if something were to happen.

As others have said perhaps the dogs trust might be able to help given their slogan is never put a dog down so they may be able to find someone who could take him on. Definitely worth phoning round places to ask. The very last option would be putting him to sleep. I have a dog and love him to bits (he's an elderly 14 yr old now) and bonded well with my daughter (who is now 7) but I know that had there been any issues, I would have tried to rehome him however painful it would have been rather than put my daughter at risk.

Good luck OP and I truly hope you can find someone to take your furbaby on and let him live out the rest of his life happily. Flowers

Littlepiglittlepig3letmeIN · 27/02/2017 18:36

Wolfie, we do hire a field for him to run in. In fact, he's there with DH right now. It's a bit of a drive so he only gets there on weekends, but it helps

If a dog is aggressive and/or skittish to the extend you have to hire a field for him to be off lead - away from other people and dogs,
then the dog is not safe to be around a baby.

It's tough, but you have to put the baby first.
Don't even take the risk.

Jessicafirsttimer · 27/02/2017 18:38

I have been in a similar situation. We had a rescued difficult sheep killing enormous Dane. We just couldn't 100% say she wouldn't harm a baby. We had her regimes through the Dogs Trust.
The Dogs Trust never put down a healthy dog. So giving him to them is definitely an option. It will break your heart though. DO NOT PUT THE DOG DOWN. There is no need.
If you know the breeds he's crossed with, they may have a breed rescue. Find the breed clubs through google and they will help.

Our kids are now 3 and 6 and we have a Bernese we got as a puppy. She's a tank but she's amazing with them.

AcaciaYou · 27/02/2017 18:41

I think you have to at least try. You owe it to the dog. There are plenty of other posters on here who have managed it - listen to their stories and advice.

And I say this as someone who doesn't even like dogs; I just think it is appalling how many pets lose their homes when a baby comes along.

Littlepiglittlepig3letmeIN · 27/02/2017 18:42

What will you do with your visitors wanting to come round and see the baby? Also it's common to meet up with other mums and babies if you do NCT/antenatal classes. Birthday parties never going to have those at home? Child's friends round? It goes way beyond just having a newborn.

Very good points.

LizB62A · 27/02/2017 18:43

If it was me, I'd start trying to rehome the dog now, before it becomes a major issue for you.
Then hopefully you won't need to have the discussion about destroying the dog

Winemamma · 27/02/2017 18:44

What a horrible situation to be in. I really do sympathise being a dog lover/owner and mother of young ones. I hope you can find a solution without euthanasia or letting your dog go. Goodluck with it Flowers x

Fififerry1 · 27/02/2017 18:50

My heart breaks for you.
We had a rescue dog with very similar issues. We homed her at 4 months and couldn't have imagined that she had already had such damage inflicted on her that she would always have such unpredictable fear based aggression.
She was the most gorgeous, loving pet. Absolutely devoted to us and our (older) children. We loved and adored her. We too spent a fortune on behaviourists and the top dog psychologist based at Livepool University. We were desperate to make her as safe as possible.
The difficulty was that she was unpredictable and whilst normally fine (particularly with children and other animals) she was extremely protective of me and the children and if she felt we were being threatened in any way could go berserk. This generally involved grabbing the nearest object and tearing it to pieces. There was more but I won't go on as it will be familiar to you. Our whole lives were dominated by keeping her calm.
Anyway, we finally realised after a 'near miss' incident involving an excited child launching themself at me that we were living in a state of constant hyper vigilance and stress and were playing Russian Roulette with the safety of others.
It absolutely broke all of our hearts to make the decision we did after 3 years that we couldn't keep her. We actually managed to place her with a dog foster carer in the middle of Wales (she could never have survived in a kennel and we would never have allowed that). They have since rehomed her twice as she has been returned quite quickly the first time.
BUT I am telling you this because even now 2 years on, every day I worry. About her but also about what she has the potential to do. I know deep in my heart that we should have had the courage to put her down. It was unthinkable to me but I truly know now it would have been the best and safest option.
You have given your dog 8 years of a life he could not have hoped for with anyone else. You are a saint but ultimately you cannot take the risk. The stress you are under now will be quadrupled and you will never relax with your new born. And you shouldn't. Your dog is not to blame for that but you would be if you exposed your baby to danger.
I know this isn't what you want to hear but it would honestly be kinder. Rehoming her would likely send a dog like yours over the edge.
Sorry I haven't got better advice.

Littlepiglittlepig3letmeIN · 27/02/2017 18:51

We use stairgates and have to be on alert all of the time even though the dog hasn't ever shown any signs of being uncomfortable I still don't trust him 100%.

What kind of a life is that - where you have to be on high alert all the time?
Surely your children and later on any visiting friends, have a right to feel relaxed in their own home?
It sounds very hard work and once it reaches that stage, the pet is not really bringing any positives to family life.

DorcasthePuffin · 27/02/2017 18:52

I truly don't understand all the posters saying, 'give it a try', 'give it a chance', 'you can't punish a dog for something it hasn't done yet'. Now, I get that with a normal dog, there will always be an element of risk but it is at a level where if you are thoughtful and proactive in managing the situation it is worth giving it a go. Nobody is advocating euthanizing ANY dog because a baby is coming.

But THIS dog? This dog who lunges without warning? This dog who cannot be part of mainstream society? This dog who has to be driven to a distant field to go off-lead? What kind of evidence do you think the OP should wait for? Do you really think it's ok to wait to see if this huge, disturbed dog actually attacks a baby?

DorcasthePuffin · 27/02/2017 18:53

And OP does NOT 'owe it to the dog' to put her baby at significant risk. Not in a million years.