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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Rock and a hard place - My dog and new baby

707 replies

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 10:29

Perhaps AIBU is the wrong place to post this, as people can be very scathing. Please be honest but gentle with me!

Sorry this is so long.....

I rescued my dog over 7 years ago, when he was 8 months old. He'll be 8 years old in a few months time. He is a large cross breed (two guard breeds) and weighs over 40kg. He was poorly bred and poorly socialised and has been mentally screwed up by his bad start. He had multiple homes in his short life before coming to us. He did not go through a proper rescue centre and if he had a proper behavioural assessment, I strongly suspect he would have been put down. He would not have been rehomable - not because he's excessively aggressive, but few rescues will home dogs with even the slightest aggression.

His aggression is fear based. He's scared of strangers and other dogs. If properly introduced to a person or another dog, he's fine. In fact, he's a total baby and as soon as you have his trust, he'll love you forever. We spent so much time and money over the years on behaviourists, trainers and socialisation classes. He improved a lot, but he will always be difficult. We always walk him on lead and usually muzzled (as a precaution, he's never actually bitten anyone, the muzzle in more in case of other dogs) and actively avoid other dogs on walks. Walking him is stressful, but we mostly get out and back without incident. We do not bother introducing him to any people he does not need to know, instead we usually shut him away when we have visitors. However if we have overnight guests, he can be successfully introduced with a bit of time and lots of sausage!

Ok, so here's the main issue. When I got him seven years ago, I was not remotely thinking about children and had also expected an 8 month old puppy to turn into a normal dog with enough effort. I underestimated how much genetics would play and that he would never be normal. I thought I could turn him around completely. I couldn't,

I am now pregnant with our first child, although it's early days. It's been a very hard time as I've had hypermesis gravardium and have been (and still am) very unwell. I haven't got out of bed in weeks, and DH is working full time, running the household and sorting out dog. We normally split the dog walking (as Neither of us enjoy doing it due to stress) but he's done it every single day without complaining, even though I know it makes him miserable. I feel awful about it.

Both my SILs and MIL have never had any time for our dog. They aren't animal people and can't forgive him for his issues. As such, we have never introduced him to them. I find them quick to judge him and they all clearly think we should simply get rid of him. Now I'm pregnant, they've already started asking us about what we're going to do. It's so upsetting that I've asked DH to tell them to lay off.

Thing is, DH and I have known for a while that we would need to make a decision eventually, and we've had circular discussions but there's no easy answer.

We've tried for this baby for over a year and it's very much wanted. It's going to be hard enough have a newborn, without the stress about whether or not our own pet will harm it. Also (a more minor issue), our dog can be demanding and pushy. When he wants a walk or food, he will pace and whine, and drive you crackers. This behaviour when I'm sleep deprived with a screaming newborn is likely to push me over the edge.

DH is likely to have to pick up the dog walking for the majority of the time, as I cannot safely walk my dog and a buggy as I need two hands if an off lead dog approaches us (I might be able to cope with a sling, but still doesn't feel safe to carry a newborn and potentially deal with a dog spat). Getting a dog walker is not really an option, as our dog needs 1:1 care from someone who can handle him. I got this dog before DH came along, he's had a very difficult dog thrust on him which he wouldn't have chosen. DH does so well with our dog, but I know he does it for me.

I've tried to consider whether it would be realistic to keep the dog separate from baby during the day? Then let the dog out with us in the evenings? Once the baby has settled and is bigger there's a chance they could be introduced carefully.

Or can they? As I said, my dog is only scared of the unknown and very good when he trusts. The home he came to before is had 3 children under 10 and he was fine with them, but that was years ago. He has never shown aggression to a child, but then again we've never let him very near to them. He's a darling with us, and I do think he has the potential to be fine with our child who will be familiar and constant to him.

But how the hell do we ever find that out? Can I really actually try introducing dog and baby, or is it too risky? I feel like it might be irresponsible to even try.

He's a big strong dog. He occasionally jumps on us if he gets excited. He's heavy and his claws are sharp. He has hurt us both without meaning to. He could easily knock a toddler over, even if being friendly.

Thing is, I love my dog. Nightmare he is, but he's my nightmare and I'm responsible for him. I never wanted to be that person to turf out their pet because a baby turned up. My worries are genuinely to do with safety and whether this situation is manageable.

Thing is, even if we decide we can't do it, he would be impossible to rehome. There are thousands of perfectly nice dogs who can't find homes. My dog will be 8 years old, with aggression issues and also expensive seasonal allergies. Literally, no one would want him. I've had professionals say to be "he's lucky he has you, because I wouldn't put up with him!". I don't want to rehome him, but even if I decide to, I really think we would struggle to find him a home. He'd hate being stuck in kennels long term as he'd be so stressed, and I fear a rescue centre would simply put him down.

If we can't keep him, and no one will take him, the only other option would be to have him put to sleep - which is unthinkable.

I feel totally stuck between a rock and a hard place. DH and I have had this conversation so many times and never come up with an answer, because there isn't one! I think deep down I know it would be difficult, if not impossible, to manage such a situation safely. But I can't bear the idea of turfing out an elderly troubled dog and where on Earth would he go?!

So please be gentle. I'm pregnant, hormonal and ill, and I love my dog very much. So please be honest, but I can't handle a flaming right now.

OP posts:
Oysterbabe · 27/02/2017 17:32

Did you miss the bit about the dog being dangerous?

elfies · 27/02/2017 17:42

It sounds as if you've given the dog a good life ,he's much loved and you've always done your very best for him , but I think now you know the safest, best thing for him too .
Imagine how you'll feel if he hurts your baby

Alb1 · 27/02/2017 17:43

OP were abouts in the country are you? There's a rescue place near me that specialise in 'difficult' and aggressive dogs, most of the dogs there the man keeps forever as he cant rehome them and he won't put them to sleep, but others he rehabilitates and carefully rehomes. Somewhere like that may be able to help you or offer you some great advice, I don't no how common these sorts of places are tho! This one is in Wakefield, Yorkshire. Also sorry I haven't managed to read all 16 pages so if it's already been mentioned I apologise

scorpio1981 · 27/02/2017 17:45

Sorry, but I think this is a straight to the vets situation. No dog, even my soft as mud, only interested in food lab would I entirely trust with a new baby. It will be awful for you but far rather that than a terrible accident by a dog who simply doesn't have the training, socialisation, personality or temperament to deal with a screaming newborn or toddler pulling its ears or hitting it over the head with a steak hammer - as I found one day much to my horror. You might only turn your back for a minute and god knows what would happen especially as your pet is needy and demanding. It doesn't bear thinking about so deal with the dog now.

Katakus · 27/02/2017 17:47

So sorry but I wouldn't risk my baby. Hard as it is you have to put your baby's safety first and re-home your dog or put it down. Sorry. I know you love your dog, but you will love your baby even more and want to protect him/her.

katrin174 · 27/02/2017 17:47

I dont think you should put him to sleep. At least give it a try, he is part of your family. Often big dogs are very gentle with babies and children. I think you should allow him to meet the baby in very small steps e.g allowing the dog to see the baby from behind the gate, allowing the dog to smell the babies blanket and eventually meeting when he is calm (maybe when he is sleepy) and with your hubby there so he can pull him away if he gets excited. I know the dog walking is tricky but there are dog walkers out there who will do one to one walks with dogs who cant be around other dogs. Part of his aggression and behaviour could be due to lack of exercise as dogs need to burn of their pent up energy. He may need to be taken somewhere where he can run and burn it off. Good luck.
I wish you all the best.

Shona52 · 27/02/2017 17:47

My heart goes out to you. What a horrible place you are in. But as sad as it is to think about putting your dog to sleep. Given the history of the dog you would never be able to trust this dog around your baby especially when it's at the toddler stage. It with be heart breaking to say goodbye to this fib but not as heartbreaking if the worst should happen and the dog attacks your child (you would never forgive yourself). If I was in this position I wouldn't take the chance

caringcarer · 27/02/2017 17:48

Very difficult but you have to put your new baby first. You as parents as the ones whose job it is to protect your baby. I have read too many stories where dogs get jealous and bite baby. Blue cross claim never to put a healthy animal down. Maybe they could re-home the dog in a house with no children. I would never take a risk with my children and especially a new baby. If the dog bit the baby you would never forgive yourself especially as you knew it was a possibility.

shelldrew · 27/02/2017 17:48

Have a look into Jan Fennell, The dog listener, Maybe email her she maybe able to help. Her technique works wonders when followed correctly.

user1484578224 · 27/02/2017 17:49

the dog is large, unpredictable, poorly socialized.
sorry but it has to go.

KnittyFoxyMa · 27/02/2017 17:54

I really hear your pain and worry OP, and you are really amazing thinking this whole thing through in advance.
I had a v troubled dog from rescue. He was 4 months when we got him and his problems became visible slowly over the following months. I put off starting a family until he was settled and had my first child when he was 2. He was a stressed dog and I spent a lot of time preparing him by carrying around a doll and caring for it and ignoring him. Interestingly, the ignoring really helped calm him. I had the help of 3 amazing dog trainers in North London, all of whom said that they'd never encountered a dog like mine before and if I'd not rehomed him, he would certainly have been pts by someone else.
We had to have him pts 18 months ago, at the age of nearly 16, just due to old age. He "brought up" 3 children and had a happy life.
I'd suggest you seek further help, I can't assess from afar, but I'm sure a good trainer would be able to advise better.
Big hugs and good luck.

EweAreHere · 27/02/2017 17:54

Honestly? I would probably euthanize the dog at this point. He's 8, big and strong, unsocialized, not trustworthy, not trainable by the sounds of it, and you're going to have a baby in the house.

You've give him 8 years and loved him and done the best you can by him. but you can't take chances with a baby. A wait and see approach may not end well... yes, nothing might go wrong, but if it did, it could well be catastrophic.

Flowers
dowhatnow · 27/02/2017 17:56

Oh op, you sound such a caring responsible owner. You've weighed up the situation so carefully, but I think you already know the answer. He may well be fine but you just can't take the risk. You would never live with yourself if anything happened to your child. It also wouldn't be fair to him to limit his life by shutting him away for such long periods and too open to a slip up - forgetting just that once to close that stair gate. Toddler putting arms through etc. It's just not an option.

You have no choice but to rehome him or have him PTS.

Don't feel guilty. He's had 8 years of a loving home that he wouldn't have had if you hadn't come along. You can't and shouldn't put your life on hold for him. Of course you will be sad but better for you all if you part ways now. Being PTS may seem unthinkable but it might be the better option if he will struggle to adapt to a new home. Sometimes you need to be cruel to be kind.

KnittyFoxyMa · 27/02/2017 17:56

Also, if you are anywhere near Essex, speak to the DogsTrust there. I am close friends with the person in charge and she has much experience of dogs such as this.

PageStillNotFound404 · 27/02/2017 17:57

lolalola did you also miss the bit where the OP says this dog doesn't give warnings? Or that he is too big and too prone to lunging at other dogs - and with the best will in the world, OP can try to control his environment as much as possible, but I know from experience it's impossible to control numpty owners of dogs who just "want to play" - for her to safely walk him onehanded and push a pram with the other hand, so it's not just about keeping them separate in the house?

mizzundastood · 27/02/2017 17:57

Sorry if anyone has already said this but have you heard of Cesar Millan? Google him. Or this amazing lady: m.plymouthherald.co.uk/dangerous-dog-caged-and-left-on-death-row-for-two-years-wins-reprieve-and-gets-a-new-owner/story-29433126-detail/story.html She has custody of a 'dangerous' dog seized by police. The court awarded it to her instead of destroying it. Seems yours is not suitable for a home environment but that doesn't have to be the end for him. FWIW I would not risk the baby around him at all. Flowers

DaisyFlower161 · 27/02/2017 18:00

Difficult situation especially when you are pregnant to deal with. I suggest an emergency appeal to the 'It's me or the Dog" trainer Victoria Stillwell as she seems to do marvels with extremely difficult dogs (obviously what appears on TV may not always be the full story but she does seem good at what she does).
Good luck with it.

PageStillNotFound404 · 27/02/2017 18:00

OP I'm sure you won't as you sound v sensible and clued up but if you are hoping to make it work, please do not let Cesar Milan or any of his disciples within 20 metres of a fear aggressive (or any, really) dog. His schtick is outdated and discredited dominance / pack theory bullshit and it's very very dangerous to try that on a fear-aggressive, reactive dog - he really would be a death sentence for your boy!

pollymere · 27/02/2017 18:06

The real question is how you would feel if your dog attacked your baby. This is a distinct possibility so you need to consider this when you're making a decision.

DagenhamRoundhouse · 27/02/2017 18:06

Can you get advice from Dogs Trust? Sorry if this has already been mentioned but I can't read thru 16 pages of comments!

Link to list of their centres to find your local one:
www.dogstrust.org.uk/our-centres/

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 27/02/2017 18:07

How heartbreaking for you and your dp Sad

I agree I wouldn't take the risk and he is likely to be very unhappy and confused a young baby being around and taking up all your attention.

Your last day will be terribly sad but having an animal pts is so peaceful. A day out, lots of fuss and then a vet come to your home what better way to let him go he has had a wonderful life and lots of love

reiki73 · 27/02/2017 18:09

I feel so sad for you and your situation, and have nothing but compassion for you. You're pregnant, ill, and having to consider a difficult decision about a pet who you love dearly. I've never had dogs myself, and am not familiar with their behaviour patterns, so couldn't help with anything there. The only thing that I could say, which I,don't think has yet been said, is have you thought about asking your vet for advice? That's the only thing that I can think of that might be helpful. Look after yourself xx

ijustdonotknow · 27/02/2017 18:10

Personally I think you'll have to say goodbye to the dog. You've given him a lovely, happy life. Life shut away half the time would not be nice for him and the probably small risk of him hurting the baby is still too much of a risk. He'd probably feel jealous of the baby getting the attention.
You'll always remember him but better to start life as a mother able to focus 100% on that.
It's probably better to have the talk sooner than later - especially if your husband is doing all the dog walking and dog minding. He might feel he's been wasting his time as it were.
I hope you're feeling better soon.

Jaxhog · 27/02/2017 18:10

Lemondrop09, I think your dog and family are very lucky to have such a considerate, responsible and lovely person in their lives. I can't imagine anyone else taking such care to do the right thing for everyone concerned. It is going to be difficult - whatever you decide. But I get the impression that you will ultimately make the best decision possible.

I don't have advice, but I do wish you luck.

Astoria7974 · 27/02/2017 18:11

How is this even a dilemma? Baby over a pet everytime. If you can rehome great - otherwise euthanasia is the only option.