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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Rock and a hard place - My dog and new baby

707 replies

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 10:29

Perhaps AIBU is the wrong place to post this, as people can be very scathing. Please be honest but gentle with me!

Sorry this is so long.....

I rescued my dog over 7 years ago, when he was 8 months old. He'll be 8 years old in a few months time. He is a large cross breed (two guard breeds) and weighs over 40kg. He was poorly bred and poorly socialised and has been mentally screwed up by his bad start. He had multiple homes in his short life before coming to us. He did not go through a proper rescue centre and if he had a proper behavioural assessment, I strongly suspect he would have been put down. He would not have been rehomable - not because he's excessively aggressive, but few rescues will home dogs with even the slightest aggression.

His aggression is fear based. He's scared of strangers and other dogs. If properly introduced to a person or another dog, he's fine. In fact, he's a total baby and as soon as you have his trust, he'll love you forever. We spent so much time and money over the years on behaviourists, trainers and socialisation classes. He improved a lot, but he will always be difficult. We always walk him on lead and usually muzzled (as a precaution, he's never actually bitten anyone, the muzzle in more in case of other dogs) and actively avoid other dogs on walks. Walking him is stressful, but we mostly get out and back without incident. We do not bother introducing him to any people he does not need to know, instead we usually shut him away when we have visitors. However if we have overnight guests, he can be successfully introduced with a bit of time and lots of sausage!

Ok, so here's the main issue. When I got him seven years ago, I was not remotely thinking about children and had also expected an 8 month old puppy to turn into a normal dog with enough effort. I underestimated how much genetics would play and that he would never be normal. I thought I could turn him around completely. I couldn't,

I am now pregnant with our first child, although it's early days. It's been a very hard time as I've had hypermesis gravardium and have been (and still am) very unwell. I haven't got out of bed in weeks, and DH is working full time, running the household and sorting out dog. We normally split the dog walking (as Neither of us enjoy doing it due to stress) but he's done it every single day without complaining, even though I know it makes him miserable. I feel awful about it.

Both my SILs and MIL have never had any time for our dog. They aren't animal people and can't forgive him for his issues. As such, we have never introduced him to them. I find them quick to judge him and they all clearly think we should simply get rid of him. Now I'm pregnant, they've already started asking us about what we're going to do. It's so upsetting that I've asked DH to tell them to lay off.

Thing is, DH and I have known for a while that we would need to make a decision eventually, and we've had circular discussions but there's no easy answer.

We've tried for this baby for over a year and it's very much wanted. It's going to be hard enough have a newborn, without the stress about whether or not our own pet will harm it. Also (a more minor issue), our dog can be demanding and pushy. When he wants a walk or food, he will pace and whine, and drive you crackers. This behaviour when I'm sleep deprived with a screaming newborn is likely to push me over the edge.

DH is likely to have to pick up the dog walking for the majority of the time, as I cannot safely walk my dog and a buggy as I need two hands if an off lead dog approaches us (I might be able to cope with a sling, but still doesn't feel safe to carry a newborn and potentially deal with a dog spat). Getting a dog walker is not really an option, as our dog needs 1:1 care from someone who can handle him. I got this dog before DH came along, he's had a very difficult dog thrust on him which he wouldn't have chosen. DH does so well with our dog, but I know he does it for me.

I've tried to consider whether it would be realistic to keep the dog separate from baby during the day? Then let the dog out with us in the evenings? Once the baby has settled and is bigger there's a chance they could be introduced carefully.

Or can they? As I said, my dog is only scared of the unknown and very good when he trusts. The home he came to before is had 3 children under 10 and he was fine with them, but that was years ago. He has never shown aggression to a child, but then again we've never let him very near to them. He's a darling with us, and I do think he has the potential to be fine with our child who will be familiar and constant to him.

But how the hell do we ever find that out? Can I really actually try introducing dog and baby, or is it too risky? I feel like it might be irresponsible to even try.

He's a big strong dog. He occasionally jumps on us if he gets excited. He's heavy and his claws are sharp. He has hurt us both without meaning to. He could easily knock a toddler over, even if being friendly.

Thing is, I love my dog. Nightmare he is, but he's my nightmare and I'm responsible for him. I never wanted to be that person to turf out their pet because a baby turned up. My worries are genuinely to do with safety and whether this situation is manageable.

Thing is, even if we decide we can't do it, he would be impossible to rehome. There are thousands of perfectly nice dogs who can't find homes. My dog will be 8 years old, with aggression issues and also expensive seasonal allergies. Literally, no one would want him. I've had professionals say to be "he's lucky he has you, because I wouldn't put up with him!". I don't want to rehome him, but even if I decide to, I really think we would struggle to find him a home. He'd hate being stuck in kennels long term as he'd be so stressed, and I fear a rescue centre would simply put him down.

If we can't keep him, and no one will take him, the only other option would be to have him put to sleep - which is unthinkable.

I feel totally stuck between a rock and a hard place. DH and I have had this conversation so many times and never come up with an answer, because there isn't one! I think deep down I know it would be difficult, if not impossible, to manage such a situation safely. But I can't bear the idea of turfing out an elderly troubled dog and where on Earth would he go?!

So please be gentle. I'm pregnant, hormonal and ill, and I love my dog very much. So please be honest, but I can't handle a flaming right now.

OP posts:
NataliaOsipova · 27/02/2017 18:53

I think you have to at least try. You owe it to the dog. There are plenty of other posters on here who have managed it - listen to their stories and advice.

I see it the other way round - you owe it to the baby to give him/her a safe home. And, as others have said, the baby's "rights" trump those of the dog. Every time. Plus - someone else's story, with a different child and a different dog is, in the end, irrelevant. You have to weigh up the potential different outcomes, the probability you place on that and whether you are prepared to take that risk. What is the chance that the dog attacks the baby? Or attacks the inquisitive toddler the baby becomes? Or one of that toddler's little friends? Are you prepared to take that risk?

Can I ask what your DH thinks, Lemondrop? What has his advice to you been? Clearly, as the baby's other parent, his views on the risk and the acceptability of taking that risk should be seriously considered as well.

twinnymummy16 · 27/02/2017 18:53

I'm sure I'll get shot down in flames for saying this but we have 3 kid ( 4 and 2x4mths)and 2 dogs. One is aggressive to other dogs but rolls over with humans and the other barks a lot but show some fear when intro to new people. (Hiding behind us and barking) I don't trust either with the children despite neither of them showing any signs they would hurt them but I wouldn't trust any dog rescued (which mine are) alone with my children. We have sectioned off the house the downstairs for dogs and upstairs for kids unless supervised downstairs. My husband does all things Dogs and I manage the children. It works well with the split of both house and responsibilities. The dogs get extra fuss once the kids are I bed we sit with them all evening. I don't think this situ is impossible Smile

Vermillioncomfyshoes · 27/02/2017 18:54

My pets ignored the baby for the first couple of months and were very aware that she was precious

How on earth can a dog know that?

Littlepiglittlepig3letmeIN · 27/02/2017 18:54

Our whole lives were dominated by keeping her calm.
Anyway, we finally realised after a 'near miss' incident involving an excited child launching themself at me that we were living in a state of constant hyper vigilance and stress and were playing Russian Roulette with the safety of others.

OP do you want to be living that kind of life?

Sundance01 · 27/02/2017 18:57

I do sympathise with you and regret to have to add another spanner in the works. You have made a huge mistake posting this. If the worst happens and your dog did bite your child if the Police chose to open even a small investigation they would find this post and prove you knew the dog was potentially dangerous. You would almost certainly go to prison.

chubbylover78 · 27/02/2017 18:58

I have a rescue dog with similar issues. You could try playing a recording of a crying baby at different times of the day whilst using a toy baby doll as a prop. If he starts to show an interest and gets too close you can tell him to sit/lie down etc and using a clicker reward him with a treat. I know it's early days but if you really can't face having him put to sleep little things like this can give you a rough idea on how he will react to you paying less attention to him and more on a baby. I know i sound off my rocker! But i saw a programme years ago where there was going to be a new baby in a house with a cat that was aggresive to strangers and certain noises. It's a long shot but it might help give you piece of mind. You don't know until you try And training a dog is all about doing things gradually until you and the animal are comfortable and confident in each other.

dowhatnow · 27/02/2017 18:58

A friend of mine is now 50 but has had to live with a completely scarred face for most of his life... You can't risk it. Sorry but you just can't. You sound like such a responsible dog owner. Now it is time to be a responsible parent instead.

Ktlp2605 · 27/02/2017 18:59

I think it's a real shame that you're even considering putting him to sleep, surely he's a part of your family just as the baby will be? I had exactly the same with my dog, although he's not a large dog he has had his moments but I would never for one minute have considered getting rid of him, people seem to see this as the norm, 'oh you've got the baby you wanted, you no longer need the dog' generally people who have never owned a dog and have children who are terrified of them as their parents have instilled in them not to go near them. My daughter is three and she has been taught to ask the owner before approaching a dog. In my experience the new addition is generally ignored as a newborn by the dog but as they grow older they are seen as another person to offer treats. There are people out there willing to offer homes to more challenging dogs but if you go down that route then please vet them correctly and never advertise them as a free dog as this would only attract dog baiters.

DorcasthePuffin · 27/02/2017 18:59

*twinnymummy" - seriously? You have sectioned the house in half and keep dogs in one half and dc in the other? Your dh stays with the dogs while you stay with the children? And you think that works well?

gemma19846 · 27/02/2017 19:01

I really think you need to take this one day at a time. You have no idea what your dog will be like with the baby and are thinking the worst. Our dog was a rescue, he was a street dog from Romania and had never been in a house or on a lead etc. He was very scared when we got him and was aggressive towards men. We did alot of training with him and now hes a "normal" dog. However i still wouldnt leave him alone with either of our kids and i dont think ANY dog should be left alone with a child even if you trust them 99.9%. I worried sick what my dog would be like with our eldest when we rescued him (he was 3) but he was fine as we introduced them slowly through gates, letting him smell his clothes etc. When we brought our 2nd home from the hospital again we introduced them slowly and my partner brough a worn babygrow back from the hospital for our dog to smell and sleep with before our baby came home. Your baby will smell of you and your partner so your dog is actually unlikely to see them as a threat and he may actually protect them! Its not ideal but you could just keep them as seperate when you are not in the room while the baby is young and once your little one is at nursery you will have time to take on the dog walking again. I really dont think you should get rid of him until you have at least seen how he is with the baby. Your baby will grow up fast and i think once you rehome your dog and he is fearful and scared again he will probably be put to sleep. Can i ask where you are as i have alot of friends in the dog rescue/behaviour line of work

Vermillioncomfyshoes · 27/02/2017 19:02

We have sectioned off the house the downstairs for dogs and upstairs for kids unless supervised downstairs. My husband does all things Dogs and I manage the children. It works well with the split of both house and responsibilities

Good grief. And I used to complain about having to look after the hamster.

Juney21 · 27/02/2017 19:03

So sorry to read about your heartbreaking situation. Also, congratulations on your pregnancy.

Just to add a different 'spin' on your options - there are some people who would be willing to rehome your doggy. I can't say who but I can tell you my situation.

My OH and I recently retired. We had a long chat and decided we wanted an older dog. It wouldn't have bothered me if the dog had behavioural problems as we have all the time in the world to retrain. Old dogs can be taught new tricks.

We have recently adopted a retired Guide Dog for the blind. You might think - he'll be perfectly trained. For the most part he is but he has no clue how to do anything outside other than poop and walk. So, we're having to train him how to play - he looks at a ball and toys as though they're aliens

I'd offer to take yours but we have 3 cats. My point is, we can't be the only older people willing to adopt an older dog with some problems.

I don't know where you could advertise but maybe others may have some knowledge or suggestions.

Hope you reach a resolution where you find peace. Also, hope you feel better soon. You have a lot on your plate. Flowers

Littlepiglittlepig3letmeIN · 27/02/2017 19:03

We have sectioned off the house the downstairs for dogs and upstairs for kids unless supervised downstairs. My husband does all things Dogs and I manage the children. It works well with the split of both house and responsibilities

that sounds like so much fun Hmm

NataliaOsipova · 27/02/2017 19:04

You don't know until you try

But it's not a binary outcome...... It's not like saying "you don't know if you can learn to drive/make a chocolate cake/run a marathon unless you try" is it? The OP only will "know" if the dog attacks the child, probably maiming or killing him/her! As a pp said, she may then go to prison. What will her DH's view be? Will he be able to forgive her for the maiming/death of his child?

And the alternative to this? The best case scenario - where she lives life in a state of perpetual tension and worry in case the above happens.....

Oysterbabe · 27/02/2017 19:05

There's a lot of anthropomorphisation going on here. If they had the ability your dogs would have you pts in exchange for a chew stick without thinking twice.

Littlepiglittlepig3letmeIN · 27/02/2017 19:05

. My point is, we can't be the only older people willing to adopt an older dog with some problems.

A lot of older people have Grandchildren.
They want their grandchildren to be able to safely come and visit them without an aggressive rescue dog in the background.

chubbylover78 · 27/02/2017 19:10

If you really can't bare to let him go contact the Dogs Trust. They will take him and retrain if nessesary but will never put him to sleep and they do all thats possible to rehome all types of dogs and will asses if he's ok with children or not.
We got our staffy cross from them and they never knew his background as he was a stray. He is excellent around people of all ages but he's scared stiff of other dogs after he was attacked last year on holiday by another staffy.
Wouldn't hurt to give them a call or check out their website and it won't cost you anything but will give you price of mind knowing he won't be put to sleep unnecessarily. I'm horrified at the amount of comments telling you to kill a defenceless creature because he has a few issues. Afterall we all have issues one way or another.

OVienna · 27/02/2017 19:11

fififerry1 your advice is in fact one of the few perfectly relevant to the OP on this thread.

Littlepiglittlepig3letmeIN · 27/02/2017 19:16

I'm horrified at the amount of comments telling you to kill a defenceless creature because he has a few issues. Afterall we all have issues one way or another.
Yes, but most people with issues don't bound around with a mouthful of very sharp flesh tearing teeth.

apringle · 27/02/2017 19:16

I would feel to nervous all the time! On top of the general overwhelming feelings that come with a new baby.

Jayfee · 27/02/2017 19:17

I think you have been amazng in your devotion to your dog. I think you should contact somewhere like the Dog's Trust and ask for help. I would think there is a possibility he could be rehomed, but if not you have surely given him a good life. My daughter got bitten on the face by the baby minders dog due to jealousy issues. Rehoming centres often wont rehome where there are children under 6. I felt so guilty every time I looked at that scar on my baby's face.

twinnymummy16 · 27/02/2017 19:17

Also our dogs are 8 and 11 now so I kind of figure they had us 100% to themselves up to having the kids and they will probably depart before the children are too much older and have the run of the house.

chubbylover78 · 27/02/2017 19:19

Perpetual tension lol if a dog owner is tense at anytime the dog can sense it and gets tense too. You can retrain a dog easily if you do it calmly and don't panic as the dog will pick up on it and become anxious and agitated and then you back to square one.
I suspect that 90% of the comments saying the dog should be put to sleep are from people that don't/ never ownd a dog and constantly avoid them at all costs.

pennycann1 · 27/02/2017 19:20

We had a similar situation when I was having DS1, my dog was interbred (which I didn't know until long after we got him), he had fear aggression but was wonderful at home with us. Once our child arrived his fear became worse and he was even scared of the garden that he used to love. He became panicked in the home and we had to make the best decision for him. I gave him the best I could and he was a very happy dog for many years but age and his fear got the better of him. It broke my heart but am so glad that he came to me and not someone who couldn't have given him the good life I did. I feel for you and the hard decision ahead.

Haggisfish · 27/02/2017 19:21

I very much disagree with that comment chubby. I think the pts comments come from dog owners who recognise that, actually, in this situation, it is possibly the best solution for all, including the dog. As they have explained, in many ways, many times over.

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